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Bracket68

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I found a good deal on craigslist for some 15" cragars with tires.
215/65/15s in tbe front but they rub hard on turns. Only on passenger side though. I figured they would fit so i never measured backspace on wheel. Idk if my suspension is off or what since the car has sat for 19 years. What are my options, should they rub? Im fine with getting new smaller tires in front
 
#2 ·
Where do they rub? When was the last time you had a front end alignment? Maybe measure the backspacing.
 
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#4 ·
Bracket68 said:
It rubs on the back screw of the fender well. Idk if its ever had an alignment lol
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That might indicate caster is off. I would get an alignment assuming the backspacing is in the ballpark.
 
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#6 ·
fairfax1000 said:
Your subframe could be slightly out of alignment. What does the gap look like with the wheels straight?
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Excessive caster will move the tire back whether the wheel is turned or not….
 
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#8 ·
As stated above, could be subframe misalignment, suspension alignment settings, or worn bushings/balljoints. There are frame alignment holes you can check to make sure the subframe hasn't shifted.

You could try an internal hex flat bevel headed screw to gain a couple mm of clearance, or even remove it completely (the other securing bolts are sufficient). But, you should confirm there's no issue with the subframe or suspension before going that route.
 
#9 · (Edited)
SoCal805 said:
assuming alignment and sub frame is in correct position, back spacing may be to much. 1/4" spacer may resolve the problem
Click to expand...
That actually makes it worse. If you trig it out, pushing the wheel out, the outside tire edge where it contacts the rear fender becomes closer (because of the fender shape that's the earliest contact area).

I can also confirm it works this way physically not just theoretically. I did a trial to see how my rear wheel/tire would fit on the front. Rear wheels had the same offset and the tires had the same diameter. So the only difference was the tire width itself. I went from 1/4" clearance to zero clearance because the outside of the outside edge of the tire (again, no diameter change) could now contact during a turn (tires were 30mm wider). That's when I did the trig to understand why, and made a calc tool so I could evaluate different tire diameter/width combos based on my baseline setup clearance. And the calcs verified my physical measurements.

An easy way to think about it, is exaggerate the condition. Look at your tire and visualize if that was pushed out several inches. Then visualize as you turn the wheel where the outside rear edge would be. (Easier if you put carpet samples or cardboard underneath and then turn the wheel until it reaches it's closest point to the fender).
 
#10 ·
Agree, I am not a fan of spacers, front or rear...but if OP's back spacing is to deep causing tire to rub on inside...leaves not much else as option other than a narrower tire. 215 is not a wide tire for the front. I run 225. The 215 spaced out 1/4" should clear on outer fender also

With that said, IMHO, a 1/4" spacer would work assuming he has clearance on the outside as well. IDK if his car is lowered. Similar to doing a drum to disc front brake conversion using drum spindles, the rotor, thus rim/mag is out further 3/8" than it was with drum as 411 states in the drum/disc kit I used. No problems and my car is lowered 1 1/2" in front running a 225 wide tire
 
#11 ·
To clarify, when turning the wheel:
A) Too much backspacing (moving wheel/tire in), reduces tire clearance (sidewall) to the subframe.
B) Too far out, the 1st point of contact is the rear edge (tire treadwall) to the rear fender bolt.

For his situation, adding a spacer would push the tire towards the outside fender, thus reducing clearance of the treadcorner to the fender bolt. He needs to move the tire in. Either a different wheel offset, or narrower tire.

That being said, unless his wheel offset is way off (negative), he shouldn't be having an issue with that tire size. So it's likely suspension or subframe.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
FbodyMike said:
As stated above, could be subframe misalignment, suspension alignment settings, or worn bushings/balljoints. There are frame alignment holes you can check to make sure the subframe hasn't shifted.

You could try an internal hex flat bevel headed screw to gain a couple mm of clearance, or even remove it completely (the other securing bolts are sufficient). But, you should confirm there's no issue with the subframe or suspension before going that route.
Click to expand...
Its great to come back and see all of the responses, i appreciate all feedback. Didnt realize this forum is so active which will make me check back more often.
The car is 100% stock suspension, i definitely wont be spending 10s of thousands on it right now but i do want to always make upgrades when i can. That said how do i easily check alignment since the car is not inspected or registered? Is it worth getting some new ball joints/control arms if these are all original?? Im at work and this is the only pic i have, ill measure some more when i get home tonight/tomorrow.
I also recall about 30 years ago i was showing off for a girl and put it sideways into a cornfield doing a burnout. I know it was a pretty hard hit and i spent hours cleaning off corn stalks before i got home and got yelled at....car never clunked or pulled after but who knows
Image
 
#15 ·
Bracket68 said:
I also recall about 30 years ago i was showing off for a girl and put it sideways into a cornfield doing a burnout. I know it was a pretty hard hit and i spent hours cleaning off corn stalks before i got home and got yelled at....car never clunked or pulled after but who knows
Click to expand...
Good chance that either effected the suspension and/or the subframe alignment. Could have even twisted or put a slight bend into the subframe itself. I would not only take the time to check the alignment holes between body and subframe, but even go further and check all the subframe to body measurement relationships with a plumbob.

The body bushings (especially stock rubber) will allow some relative movement between the frame and body with enough force. It's basically held in place by clamploads. Granted total movement is limited by the various components (unless you sheer bolts), but there has to be enough clearance between the various pieces of metal and rubber to allow for part to part variation. And as rubber creeps over time that clampload becomes less, making it even more susceptible.
 
#16 ·
If suspension components are "original", than yes refreshing it is advised. Moog or Proform ball joints, A arm bushings, tie rods, center link, idler arm. Any alignment on worn components is worthless.

The corn field episode may have tweaked sub-frame some. You can reference these measurements to check alignment of chasis

Image
 
#20 ·
FbodyMike said:
That actually makes it worse. If you trig it out, pushing the wheel out, the outside tire edge where it contacts the rear fender becomes closer (because of the fender shape that's the earliest contact area).

I can also confirm it works this way physically not just theoretically. I did a trial to see how my rear wheel/tire would fit on the front. Rear wheels had the same offset and the tires had the same diameter. So the only difference was the tire width itself. I went from 1/4" clearance to zero clearance because the outside of the outside edge of the tire (again, no diameter change) could now contact during a turn (tires were 30mm wider). That's when I did the trig to understand why, and made a calc tool so I could evaluate different tire diameter/width combos based on my baseline setup clearance. And the calcs verified my physical measurements.

An easy way to think about it, is exaggerate the condition. Look at your tire and visualize if that was pushed out several inches. Then visualize as you turn the wheel where the outside rear edge would be. (Easier if you put carpet samples or cardboard underneath and then turn the wheel until it reaches it's closest point to the fender).
Click to expand...
With this calc tool you devised…. Was there any vertical movement involved to simulate shock/spring travel in the event of bump or braking while turning? Perhaps just a fluff zone of 2 inches or so?
 
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Bracket68
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