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Melmount

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I sort of need roller rockers on my 302 build. Valve spring pressures will be around 180-200 and 400 on other end.
i don’t think stamped original style will work with the lift and pressures? 530 lift. Not huge but good amount duration and will be 7 k rpm engine. Really hoping fit under stock z28 valve cover. Anyone know of a set that clears? Rather not buy wrong ones and be stuck .
Would a stock type rocker in cromoly with grooved balls survive? Motor won’t be daily driven.
But I don’t want to have galling start or issues with metal grinding off, or a pushrod go thru the rocker. But won’t have over 400 pounds open though. I will know shortly exact pressure .
 
I went thru same problem but for me the limiting factor was the oil separators for pvc. The roller rockers are wider which interferes with the stock valve cover baffles. I ended up using an aftermarket standard height valve cover with smaller baffle with thick felpro gasket. This also allowed me to still use stock alternator bracket but with a slightly longer belt
 
Make sure you check your spring compression height. Last time I ran a .531 lift on factory heads the recommended spring height wasnt attainable without a cut.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Make sure you check your spring compression height. Last time I ran a .531 lift on factory heads the recommended spring height wasnt attainable without a cut.
The heads are cut and ready. But didn’t really want to not use original valve covers. I look at it as if I start changing stuff, no reason to not stroke the motor. If not original no reason to be a 302 inch.
Can a cro moly roller tip rocker with stand the pressures? They are not massive pressure. But I don’t know how to confirm? I put way too much into this build to do something that will damage it. Good rods with l19 bolts etc.
I did do 7/16 studs and guide plates. If stock style will work I will do that.
 
If the spring you are winding up with has a greater OD, like mine did, you may need roller rockers to cleanly clear the retainers. You gotta check them all.
 
The heads are cut and ready. But didn’t really want to not use original valve covers. I look at it as if I start changing stuff, no reason to not stroke the motor. If not original no reason to be a 302 inch.
Can a cro moly roller tip rocker with stand the pressures? They are not massive pressure. But I don’t know how to confirm? I put way too much into this build to do something that will damage it. Good rods with l19 bolts etc.
I did do 7/16 studs and guide plates. If stock style will work I will do that.
7/16" studs were a good move. A chromoly rocker is strong enough. Is there a reason you don't want to run a roller rocker? The roller tip doesn't do much, it is the roller stanchion that you see the advantage..
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
7/16" studs were a good move. A chromoly rocker is strong enough. Is there a reason you don't want to run a roller rocker? The roller tip doesn't do much, it is the roller stanchion that you see the advantage..
Don’t think a true roller will fit under the stock valve cover And some covers interfere with a crossram intake.
 
First know whatever valve covers you run with the Offy or GM crossram you need to trim the the valve cover gasket rail lip off at the crossram base torque box or you will not be able to install/remove the covers after crossram is installed. After removing the valve cover gasket retaining lips near torque box you will need to use 3M super weatherstrip adhesive to secure the gasket to whats left of the covers gasket rail.
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Not sure I'd cut an original set of valve cover. There are some other things to consider using the GM finned aluminum covers from the 69. First you already know about the seperators. Next is the dripper tabs that extend down from the ceilings. Third is on my 69Z with original heads, 30/30 cam & stamped GM rockers and valve covers the rockers at each end of the covers were contacting the valve covers due to the radius ends of the cover ceilings. I installed the thickest Fel Pro cork gasket amd gained the cleareance needed to correct. These Motion style covers I use on my crossram car are taller than the GM finned covers, I run a standard thickness gasket, 1.800 installed height Ferea one pc stainless dish, swirl, undercut valves and no clearance issues running stainless full roller rockers. I have run 302 sbc engines to 8K rpm many, many times using stamped steel rockers, with the grooved balls and long slots, (with 3/8 studs). But opted for 7/16 ARP studs & stainless rollers this time. Don't need anything fancy there.

Be careful if using aftermarket heads as many have raised valve cover rails like my BPEs and the covers sit higher than stock and contact the crossram at the lid bolt bosses. This requires careful grinding to correct at all bosses running along the sides/top of the valve covers. But allows removal/installation of covers. Also need valve cover studs vs bolts at least on the upper locations to install the nuts on the studs vs fighting with bolts as there is very limited acess.
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180-200 on the seat and 400 full open are really high spring pressures for SBC FT cams. Robert Freand @ Crane suggests 105-125 max on the seat, 330 max full open, 220 min up to 4000 rpm, 260 min above 4000 rpm and screw in studs above 280. My valves are 5.011 L and 1.800 installed ht & with locators and shims 130 on the seat, 325 full open .496" lift FT.

I also run LS beehive Lunati springs on my SBC, much better spring and use the small retainers reducing weight. Both Como Cams & Crane told me they don't know why every SBC FT guy hasn't changed to these.

I will add before installing your crossram base make sure your oil pressure takeoff at rear of engine block is the smallest 90 degree fitting and tight in the block bc once crossram is covering it up you can only tighten it about 90 degrees if it leaks. My future plan is to ditch the tubing with a proper hose assembly.
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Final thought to share, not sure what your cam specs are, but don't listen to those telling you the 140 Solid FT cam was designed to be used with the crossram. It was not, it was also intended for a race car that will never see rpms below 4K. It also wasn't a favorite of racers as it had a flat spot in torque around 4K which was where racers were trying to accelerate out of the curves. Chief Engineer Jerry Thompson said in 2022 that cam was simply something he pulled from the GM Heavy Duty parts list and pre-dates the crossram project by many years. There was no funding for racing and he had to get creative saving $$ when he could.

Grumpy Jenkins and David Emanuel both suggest keeping duration at 220@.050 on a crossram for street use. Mine is 224@.050 the intake has a much earlier closing point than the very late closing intake on the 140. So at low engine speeds it isnt bleeding off 2.5 points of compression like the 140. So much more responsive on the street.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Thx great info. I think my valve covers are already notched. I didn’t do it. The cam is a roller cam with solid lifters. It’s a hydraulic roller cam with good amount of duration but only 500 lift. I can use solid roller lifters on it.( I like them better)
 
Hey @Melmount, that's a great write-up on how you solved the roller rocker interference with the oil separators. Out of curiosity, which aftermarket valve covers did you end up using? Adding that brand info could really help someone else trying to make a similar setup work
So are we to believe robots have curiosity now or just 11010 0011 1010 0110 11?🤣
 
The heads are cut and ready. But didn’t really want to not use original valve covers. I look at it as if I start changing stuff, no reason to not stroke the motor. If not original no reason to be a 302 inch.
Can a cro moly roller tip rocker with stand the pressures? They are not massive pressure. But I don’t know how to confirm? I put way too much into this build to do something that will damage it. Good rods with l19 bolts etc.
I did do 7/16 studs and guide plates. If stock style will work I will do that.
I was told to pack some clay under the valve cover and bump the engine a couple times.
 
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