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Engine makes noise on the left side

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Discussion starter · #61 ·
SoCal805 said:
in the video, the Bendix gear is not engaged, touching, the flexplate. I would assume it also does not while engine is running. If car is securely on jack stands while engine running, you could watch it to confirm it disengages from flexplate

I don't have a spare starter to see if there is that slop in bendex gear normally
Click to expand...
I should have done that before I drained the oil. I'll let you know as soon as I've looked at the filter. If I don't find anything there then I can fill in new oil and start the engine. Or what would be the next step?
 
Discussion starter · #67 ·
I took a closer look at the oil filter today and found a few tiny metal particles and red and yellow dirt in a few places.
Is this within limits or do I have a serious problem? If so, what could it be?
 

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#68 ·
If motor was recently rebuilt and this is the first or second oil change, "some" metal is not uncommon. The only reservation I have is your note about a bad lifter when engine was rebuilt was replaced. That can also wipe a cam lobe. In this case the lobe associated with that lifter.

Both magnet and filter do show some metal. By itself, not a major concern on recently rebuilt engines. However with a knock also, than that is.

Do you remember what cyl # that bad lifter was?
2,4,6 or 8??

The knock is a concern. The note on fuel pump push rod wearing against that cam lobe is possible. You would need to remove fuel pump and push rod and inspect. Use a bore scope up into where the push rod goes and look at FP cam lobe.
 
Discussion starter · #69 ·
SoCal805 said:
If motor was recently rebuilt and this is the first or second oil change, "some" metal is not uncommon. The only reservation I have is your note about a bad lifter when engine was rebuilt was replaced. That can also wipe a cam lobe. In this case the lobe associated with that lifter.

Both magnet and filter do show some metal. By itself, not a major concern on recently rebuilt engines. However with a knock also, than that is.

Do you remember what cyl # that bad lifter was?
2,4,6 or 8??

The knock is a concern. The note on fuel pump push rod wearing against that cam lobe is possible. You would need to remove fuel pump and push rod and inspect. Use a bore scope up into where the push rod goes and look at FP cam lobe.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I don't know which tappet was apparently replaced under the seller's warranty. When I localise the noise from above, it comes from the left side in the rear area. Had already heard it on the cover with the stethoscope. The petrol pump is on cylinder 2, isn't it? I'll remove it anyway and have a look. Do I need to pay attention to anything? Is the tank running empty or something?
 
#71 ·
Your fuel pump or its push rod may be the noise but not something that happens very often. You could just check your fuel pressure to see if its normal (not low) showing fuel pump is OK

To remove fuel pump, You do need to remove gas lines from pump. Just stick a bolt into the rubber one so gas from tank does not flow out. You will need a gasket set to put fuel pump back on. There ate 2. Bring motor to #1 TDC as it will be easier to put it back on. The push rod can't come out unless you remove the plate the fuel pump bolts to. Look carefully at the ends for any wear and use a bore scope up into the push rod hole if there is wear of push rod to see if that cam lobe is worn. Use a blob of grease to hold push rod up into the hole while you put fuel pump back on. A hack saw blade on its side can also be used to hold push rod up. Or there is a short bolt, pr plug, on timing cover that if you remove it and use a longer one, it will hold up the push rod so installing fuel pump is easy. Just remember to remove that bolt and put the threaded plug back i timing cover

You need to raise engine about 4" t get oil an off. This typically involves removing distributor cap and disconnecting exhaust pipe from manifold/headers so engine can tilt back. You need a engine hoist or come up with some blocks of wood between engine mounts to hold it up after jacking engine up with floor jack and padded block of wood under oil pan

I would just remove intake manifold and pull lifters to look at cam lobes but only way to see crank or rod bearings is to pull pan. At that point, just pull the engine out
 
Discussion starter · #72 ·
SoCal805 said:
Your fuel pump or its push rod may be the noise but not something that happens very often. You could just check your fuel pressure to see if its normal (not low) showing fuel pump is OK

To remove fuel pump, You do need to remove gas lines from pump. Just stick a bolt into the rubber one so gas from tank does not flow out. You will need a gasket set to put fuel pump back on. There ate 2. Bring motor to #1 TDC as it will be easier to put it back on. The push rod can't come out unless you remove the plate the fuel pump bolts to. Look carefully at the ends for any wear and use a bore scope up into the push rod hole if there is wear of push rod to see if that cam lobe is worn. Use a blob of grease to hold push rod up into the hole while you put fuel pump back on. A hack saw blade on its side can also be used to hold push rod up. Or there is a short bolt, pr plug, on timing cover that if you remove it and use a longer one, it will hold up the push rod so installing fuel pump is easy. Just remember to remove that bolt and put the threaded plug back i timing cover

You need to raise engine about 4" t get oil an off. This typically involves removing distributor cap and disconnecting exhaust pipe from manifold/headers so engine can tilt back. You need a engine hoist or come up with some blocks of wood between engine mounts to hold it up after jacking engine up with floor jack and padded block of wood under oil pan

I would just remove intake manifold and pull lifters to look at cam lobes but only way to see crank or rod bearings is to pull pan. At that point, just pull the engine out
Click to expand...
I remember that I've already been to the petrol pump with the stethoscope and heard nothing.... just like all the other places. Even the oil pan sounded like a rattle. Maybe I don't have the hearing for it. I'll have a look at the pump and the tappet anyway. The oil sump will probably be too difficult without a lift. Maybe I'll try unscrewing the intake manifold to check the tappets. But I'm a bit worried about the distributor and the ignition setting. I've never done that before.
 
#73 ·
From this side of the internet, we can only offer suggestions on what we can "guess" at based on your posts, pics and videos from what knowledge we may have. The translation of your posts may not be accurate on our part in advising remedies

I would suggest you look and hear closer, external of the engine while running, and if you can't determine source of noise, have a qualified mechanic diagnose it. Removing the intake and lifters involves a skill set perhaps beyond your knowledge as does removing the engine and examining its internals.

The metal on magnet (get a magnet tip drain plug) and in filter is not a great deal now but is a concern as there should not be any and that there is a "noise" also and previously a lifter was replaced (may or may not be related). Those things often mean the engine is eating itself. Assuming the noise is from internal engine, only way to fund the "why" is to disassemble the engine until that source is identified. If you do put new oil in and keep driving it and noise continues and you drain oil again and find metal on magnet and inside filter, you need to tear engine down and repair. Typically that would be minimally bearings.

If your engine (likely) is a flat tappet cam engine, those types of engines (original to 1st gen Camaros) are prone to "wiping" cam lobes on initial engine break in or later if wrong (non high zinc content) oil is used
 
Discussion starter · #75 ·
SoCal805 said:
From this side of the internet, we can only offer suggestions on what we can "guess" at based on your posts, pics and videos from what knowledge we may have. The translation of your posts may not be accurate on our part in advising remedies

I would suggest you look and hear closer, external of the engine while running, and if you can't determine source of noise, have a qualified mechanic diagnose it. Removing the intake and lifters involves a skill set perhaps beyond your knowledge as does removing the engine and examining its internals.

The metal on magnet (get a magnet tip drain plug) and in filter is not a great deal now but is a concern as there should not be any and that there is a "noise" also and previously a lifter was replaced (may or may not be related). Those things often mean the engine is eating itself. Assuming the noise is from internal engine, only way to fund the "why" is to disassemble the engine until that source is identified. If you do put new oil in and keep driving it and noise continues and you drain oil again and find metal on magnet and inside filter, you need to tear engine down and repair. Typically that would be minimally bearings.

If your engine (likely) is a flat tappet cam engine, those types of engines (original to 1st gen Camaros) are prone to "wiping" cam lobes on initial engine break in or later if wrong (non high zinc content) oil is used
Click to expand...
I am also very grateful for your help here in the forum. It has helped me out many times. The problem here in Germany is that the workshops that can repair something like this are extremely expensive. They charge hourly rates of around 130 euros/hour. That's why I try to do as much as possible myself, of course. But when it comes to dismantling the engine, I have to stop. I will refill the oil (Valvoline VR1) and listen to everything carefully with the stethoscope. Then I will run the engine without the valve cover. Maybe I'll see or hear something then? Can I test the built-in tappets? The noise from the video should be clearly different from the other noises in the engine, right? If I put the stethoscope on the fuel pump, I should also hear something if it or the tappet were defective, right? I've attached another picture of the oil that came out of the pan and the filter. It's a 5-liter canister and I think it's too little? I recently filled it up to the mark on the dipstick. Could that be the cause? Is the mark on the dipstick perhaps incorrect? The short block is from 1982.
Thank you for your help.

Image
 
#77 ·
Your engine takes 5 quarts=4.7 liters of oil

Valvoline VR 1, 20-50 is good

If you remove valve covers and run engine, carefully look at each rocker that it moves up/down exactly as much, especially height, as the others. If one does not, that means that lifter is either collapsed or the cam lobe is wiped. The wiped lobe will cause a knock. Collapsed lifter would make noise from the valve train which is a different sound. More like a "clack-clack" sound. All nuts securing rockers should have the same amount of rocker stud espoused. If one, or more, have more stud than that is also a sign the lifter is collapsed or cam lobe is wiped. If you wiped a cam lobe, engine needs to come out to replace can, lifters and likely bearings at a minimum. Often crank shaft needs to be ground down or at least polished as metal has gone throughout the engine so all bearing surfaces are affected. So yes you want to confirm source of noise begore proceeding. Collapsed lifter can be replaced with engine in car but intake manifold needs to come off to access them

If there are laboratories in Germany that analyze oil, send a sample to them. Here in US, that costs about $30 Blackstone Labs) and you get a full report on oil condition, including levels on contaminants and what specific compound (metal) it is and +/- of those levels to normal. If sending a sample from your old oil, shake the container to evenly disperse whatever is in it as otherwise they have settled to bottom of container. The lab will specify the amount, typically a few ounces. If results show excessive metal, you will need to tear engine down for repair

Here is a copy (attached) of my oil analysis, note the comment about metal in a new engine. Your current metal "may" be normal if engine is new and has only one oil change before as new or rebuilt engines do have some wear initially and from assembly. Every new or rebuilt engine I have, I do these reports for 500mi, 3500 mi and 10,000 mi as they are a good tool to know early engine health. Given the good news, I won't do it anymore unless at some point I do hear a internal engine noise.

Here in US, labor rates are similar to yours per hr.

Use caution when under the car listening with stethoscope. Place it on bottom of pan in places front to rear to see if noise comes from either area. Also along block just above pan to isolate area of noise. On intake manifold at each port, same for exhaust. Any one noticeably different sound is suspect
 

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Discussion starter · #78 ·
SoCal805 said:
Your engine takes 5 quarts=4.7 liters of oil

Valvoline VR 1, 20-50 is good

If you remove valve covers and run engine, carefully look at each rocker that it moves up/down exactly as much, especially height, as the others. If one does not, that means that lifter is either collapsed or the cam lobe is wiped. The wiped lobe will cause a knock. Collapsed lifter would make noise from the valve train which is a different sound. More like a "clack-clack" sound. All nuts securing rockers should have the same amount of rocker stud espoused. If one, or more, have more stud than that is also a sign the lifter is collapsed or cam lobe is wiped. If you wiped a cam lobe, engine needs to come out to replace can, lifters and likely bearings at a minimum. Often crank shaft needs to be ground down or at least polished as metal has gone throughout the engine so all bearing surfaces are affected. So yes you want to confirm source of noise begore proceeding. Collapsed lifter can be replaced with engine in car but intake manifold needs to come off to access them

If there are laboratories in Germany that analyze oil, send a sample to them. Here in US, that costs about $30 Blackstone Labs) and you get a full report on oil condition, including levels on contaminants and what specific compound (metal) it is and +/- of those levels to normal. If sending a sample from your old oil, shake the container to evenly disperse whatever is in it as otherwise they have settled to bottom of container. The lab will specify the amount, typically a few ounces. If results show excessive metal, you will need to tear engine down for repair

Here is a copy (attached) of my oil analysis, note the comment about metal in a new engine. Your current metal "may" be normal if engine is new and has only one oil change before as new or rebuilt engines do have some wear initially and from assembly. Every new or rebuilt engine I have, I do these reports for 500mi, 3500 mi and 10,000 mi as they are a good tool to know early engine health. Given the good news, I won't do it anymore unless at some point I do hear a internal engine noise.

Here in US, labor rates are similar to yours per hr.

Use caution when under the car listening with stethoscope. Place it on bottom of pan in places front to rear to see if noise comes from either area. Also along block just above pan to isolate area of noise. On intake manifold at each port, same for exhaust. Any one noticeably different sound is suspect
Click to expand...
Tomorrow I'll get the oil and then I'll go on a lift next week and listen carefully again. The note on the engine says that the garage filled it with 5.5 litres.... strangely enough, only 4 litres came out white. I checked very often and it was always at the mark. I read that I can narrow down the noise by disconnecting one ignition cable after the other. Does that make sense? I'll have a look on the internet to find an oil lab.
 
#79 ·
Your motor takes 5 US Qts with a filter which I believe is 4.7 Liters. Overfilling the engine is not good. When you drain oil there is about 1/2+ qt still in filter so take that into account assuming the motor does not otherwise consume oil

pulling one plug wire at a time is mainly to discover a cylinder not firing. Not for internal engine knock. You can certainly do it to hear if there is otherwise any difference in sound.

Is this a stroker (383) small block engine?
 
Discussion starter · #80 ·
SoCal805 said:
Your motor takes 5 US Qts with a filter which I believe is 4.7 Liters. Overfilling the engine is not good. When you drain oil there is about 1/2+ qt still in filter so take that into account assuming the motor does not otherwise consume oil

pulling one plug wire at a time is mainly to discover a cylinder not firing. Not for internal engine knock. You can certainly do it to hear if there is otherwise any difference in sound.

Is this a stroker (383) small block engine?
Click to expand...
No, not a 383 stroker. The seller said it is 355 small block with 4 bolts main.
 
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