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Ecklers 69 front disc conversion kit - beware

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SS1967RS

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Just a word of caution and a question regarding a drum to disc conversion I am just completing on my 69RS.
I ordered from Ecklers an AB20 front disc conversion kit along with the AB28 upgrade kit, FKT-70 front brake line kit per guidance of the tech at Ecklers.
I waited to install the kit because I was pulling the motor for a refresh and figured it would be easier to do the brake upgrade with the motor out. So the kit sat for a few (many) months until I was done rebuilding the motor. When I started putting it together I discovered the brake like set was incorrect and I had to order AB32 steel brake line kit. Received that and finished the install. Lo and behold the rear brake line hose that runs to the junction block was a regular brake line hose, not one that the two rear brake lines could join in to. I ended up getting the correct rear brake line hose from O'Reilly because I did not want to wait again. I contacted Ecklers and to their credit, they did credit my card for the amount of the correct hose.
The last piece of the pie is with the front disc brake hoses. They are about 15" long. From where the hard lines ends on the passenger and drivers side to the calipers, 15" hose seems very excessive. It appears, even when allowing for turning radius that these hoses are about 5" too long. Even the instructions for "Right Stuff" states " the hose might seem a little tight when you turn the wheels lock to lock. This is normal. The suspension (wheels off, on Jack stands) is flexed to the absolute limits of its travel. You'd have to be airborne while making a sharp turn to recreate these conditions while driving". With the hoses they include in the kit, it is just opposite, way too much hose.
Can you front disc Camaro owners help me out here? Are these hoses really suppose to be this long?
My confidence level with Ecklers / Right Stuff is pretty low and I am having my doubts. In contacting Ecklers, they could not tell me if 15" is the right length, but adimetly stands by the message that these are the right hoses.
Thanks in advance.

Rick
 
#2 ·
If it is Right Stuff gear, I'd contact Right Stuff directly. I've also had problems with parts ordered from them via Matt's Classic Bowties. MCB directed me to Right Stuff who then immediately corrected the issues.
 
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#5 ·
I have done disc conversions to my 1st and 2nd gen Camaro. Every single one required some sort of modification with regard to lines, etc.

I just assume there is no such thing as a true bolt and go set up.
 
#6 ·
The 69 factory disc setup terminated the hard lines at a bracket on the top of the subframe rail and the 67-68 had the bracket on the side of the subframe rail. (I think)

It's possible that you got hoses for the line set that you don't have - if that makes sense.
69 factory style




67-68 style
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
But Ecklers should take some responsibility. I tried talking to customer service at Ecklers and that was 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Sure has been a decline in service since Ecklers bought Rick's.
I will call Right Stuff tomorrow.
Thanks for the pictures BPOS. Can you tell me the apron length of your front brake hoses?
 
#8 ·
Hello, this is Todd from The Right Stuff. Sorry to hear you had some issues with your disc brake conversion kit, SS67RS! Here are a few explanations to your issues:

1. Your brake line set problems. This is unfortunately a common issue where customers order (or vendors sell) the brake line set for factory disc brakes to go with a disc brake conversion. Because the valve that comes in a disc conversion is different than the valves that come on a factory disc car, this does not work. Also, as BPOS points out below, The frame brackets (where the hard line meets the rubber line) on a factory disc 67-69 Camaro mount up on top of the frame, whereas the drum brake car's brackets were down on the side of the frame. So our line set that is specifically made for guys/gals who are converting from drum to disc route to their factory drum brake brackets.

Factory Style Valve Config. - 69 Camaro

Image


Disc conversion valve config.-

Image


We do have our "No-Brainer" brake line kits that are made specifically for cars that have been converted to disc brakes using the valve shown above

2. Rear flex hose- It sounds like you received a flex hose for a 67 or 68, which from the factory screwed into the separate block on the rear end. In 69 the block was actually crimped onto the hose.

67-68 hose
Image


69 Hose
Image


3. Front disc conversion flex hoses. What we use in our disc brake conversion kits is actually the exact length that came on a factory disc 69 Camaro. About 15" long. I am asked sometimes why this is longer than the factory disc 67-68 hoses. The answer is that the 67-68 vehicles came factory with a four piston caliper that had a short steel line between the caliper and the hose. That coupled with the fact that it just hits the caliper in a different spot is what makes the required hose length different.

The fact that you are running a factory disc 69 flex hose (which we include in our kits) to the closer drum brake bracket location does give you some extra "slack" in the flex hoses, but I can't say that I have ever had this cause any problems for customers. This includes our owner's Camaros here at our shop. If it does for you, feel free to give me a call to discuss.


I hope that helps to clear up some of the confusion, and as always our tech line is available to answer any of your questions.

-Todd
 
#9 ·
This is not my post but thank you Todd for taking the time to address the original posters issue. I just finished with a disk brake install I received from Matt's Classic Bowties. I had no issues with my install but it is nice to see that you guys care about your product enough to take the time to come here and address it!!

Mike
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Thank you Todd. Work has gotten in my way of responding sooner. I have since wrapped up the install and having you confirm that my front disc brake hoses are the correct length is comforting.
I was concerned because in the directions it stated that I should not be concerned if the front brake hoses seemed tight, that the suspension was fully extended. When in actuality there seemed to be excess brake hose.
Why I did not call you direct, I don't know. But I appreciate you responding here. That speaks volumes for the credibility of your company. Thank you.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the pics BPOS...

I'm experiencing this right now, as I'm just putting my front brake assemblies back together.
My 69 had front disk/rear drums.
The hard line that came with the kit fits perfectly into the valve on the new booster I bought from Right stuff. On the driver's side, it drops down to the subframe and then crosses over the subframe and down the outside edge, exactly as shown above in the "67-68" picture. My flex hoses are exactly the same length as my old hoses, but my old hoses definitely terminated on top of the subframe.
I checked the bags the lines were shipped in, and they are labeled "67-69".

My first thought was to just move the bracket down to the side of the subframe, but I believe it's a different bracket.

So it looks like in order to make these parts work, I need to get a set of 67-68 brackets to mount the lines to my 69?
When I look at the website and pictures of the line kits, the kit for a 69 disk looks different than the lines I have:
http://www.getdiscbrakes.com/fkt6905
Hard to tell, but it looks like the driver's side line in that kit terminates on top of the subframe.

Image

Kind of a pain, wanted to have the brakes done today, but that's not going to happen.
Guess I'll work on glass. Never thought that would be more fun than brakes.

Jim
 
#13 ·
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#14 ·
Steiner said:
Jim, you just have to get a set of 1969 drum brake brackets (I think the '68 are shaped differently). The holes are already in the frame and I think you can use the existing self tappers on the disc brackets to install them. I had to do this on one of mine.
Here's and example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Camaro...ont-drum-brake-hose-brackets-Sold-in-pairs-/271179027152?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
Click to expand...
Steiner, Thanks for the info.
I have the original top-of-subframe brackets.
I was just looking at it again, and as always, it gets muddier. I have tubular arms, so there are no holes to attach the flex hose to.
So it looks like I should keep the hard lines that appear to be 67/68, and then go with a 67/68 bracket like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-C...sc=261&meid=5043010926034871336&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=271179027152&

That way I can keep the hard lines, mount them to the side of the subframe, and just go with shorter flex lines. Mine are 15", and would be about right going to the top of the subframe, but going to the side, they're going to be too long.

I either need 69 hard lines, or 67/68 frame mounts.

Jim
 
#15 ·
Lobstah said:
Steiner, Thanks for the info.
I have the original top-of-subframe brackets.
I was just looking at it again, and as always, it gets muddier. I have tubular arms, so there are no holes to attach the flex hose to.
So it looks like I should keep the hard lines that appear to be 67/68, and then go with a 67/68 bracket like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-1968-C...sc=261&meid=5043010926034871336&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=3&rkt=5&sd=271179027152&

That way I can keep the hard lines, mount them to the side of the subframe, and just go with shorter flex lines. Mine are 15", and would be about right going to the top of the subframe, but going to the side, they're going to be too long.

I either need 69 hard lines, or 67/68 frame mounts.

Jim
Click to expand...
Essentially what has happened is that you received "conversion" disc brake lines. They are used when doing the front drum to disc conversion and thus mount to the original drum brake line brackets that are mounted to the side of the frame. Because of the way the flex line attaches in the conversion, you do not bolt the flex line to the control arm. I don't believe they even include the control arm clips when you do the conversion.


Here's where you're at I think:
(1) Request the correct lines. If you got them from Right Stuff it's unfortunately fairly common (in my experience) to receive the wrong parts. I bet they spend a fortune in UPS costs.

(2) Get the drum brake frame brackets that I mentioned earlier and install your lines like when the drum-to-disc conversion is done. Having the line free is a non-issue as I have this setup on two cars (*more on this below).

(3) Get a flare tool and modify the lines they sent you to install in your existing frame brackets.



*I did the four wheel disc conversion on a four wheel drum car with new hard lines and everything . Eventually I bought another car that already had front discs. I ordered new hard lines and booster/master/valve for disc/disc for the new car and pulled everything else from the old car and put on the new car. Since the lines that came were for conversion, I also had to later buy the drum line brackets. Also when I put the new lines in I think I noticed that they went practically through the existing disc brackets which is why I mentioned (3) above to possibly just cut and reflare the end of the lines.

I then took the entire spindle/rotor/caliper assembly from the new car that had been removed as one piece and installed in the old car. Since it already had the conversion hardlines I just removed the control arm mounting clip from the flex lines and then connected them to the hard lines. There is no issue with either car as far as the flex lines being close to anything they shouldn't be.
 
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#16 ·
Not sure if it was Right Stuff or Matt's...could be some of both.
Will dig into it again tomorrow when I can get 'em on the phone.

Meanwhile...glass and Caltracs will keep me busy for a bit ;)

Jim
 
#17 ·
Matt's or Right Stuff will be the same.....if they came from Matt he'll just give you your order number and tell you to call Right Stuff and tell them your story.
 
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#18 ·
Well...after all is said and done, they don't MAKE a stainless 69 disk hard line, period.

So down to two options...
Cut the lines, or go with 67-68 brackets.

Brackets are easier, so that's probably what will happen.

Just can't believe they don't make that line in stainless.

Jim
 
#19 ·
Lobstah said:
Well...after all is said and done, they don't MAKE a stainless 69 disk hard line, period.

So down to two options...
Cut the lines, or go with 67-68 brackets.

Brackets are easier, so that's probably what will happen.

Just can't believe they don't make that line in stainless.

Jim
Click to expand...
I hope I remember this post when I get around to installing the SS lines I bought a few years back. I'm sure I ordered disc lines, I wonder what I really got.

Jeff
 
#20 ·
The thing that caused me problems was going to the stainless lines AND the new chrome booster with the valve underneath.
If I went factory booster, they make 69 lines for that.

Jim
 
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