Replacement Headers Sizing And Brand Guidance Requested

NH69Z28RS · Feb 22, 2014

First a little background, car is a 69 Camaro Z/28 with a 406 SBC that is getting a new top end. It had a set of Bowtie 034 angle plug heads on it and what is believed to be an old set of Blackjack Alumanized 1-3/4" primary tube headers on it. Car has original power steering, and there was a clearance issue found when I pulled the old headers off during dis-assembly. The old headers were rubbing the power steering box in two locations on the #1 cylinder primary tube to the point that the wear spots are almost worn through the pipe. My plan was to re-use these old headers IF they would fit and TIG weld the wear spots.

Seeing as the plan was to try and use the old headers, I ordered AFR 210cc angle plug replacement heads (exhaust ports raised by .25" over stock location) and yesterday I mocked up a new head on the drivers side and fit the old header in. The header clearance issue is more of a problem now and that was without any gaskets which when added would only make the clearance issue worse. So I've decided with all the time and money I'm putting into the top end upgrade, I'd be better off to replace the old headers with something that will fit and allow the heads and new retro roller camshaft to reach their full potential. Additionally I'm thinking down the road that some day I might end up building a 427 small block, so I want these new headers to be able to handle that level of cubic inches.

With that in mind, I think I should be looking for a set of 1-3/4" primary into 1-7/8" primary long tube headers, but would like validation (or correction) on my thoughts. After searching and reading up on others experiences, I'm leaning towards a set of Dynatech MuscleMAXX Headers 740-21310. The Hooker Comps appear to have fitment issues, the Super Comps appear to fit better than the plain Comps, but at a higher cost.

Appreciate any and all feedback?

Thanks,
Scott

Steiner · Feb 22, 2014

Scott, my 1-7/8" Dynatechs are few years old but clear everything other than having to graze one corner of the PS box with a chainsaw sharpener for the #3 tube. My heads are only 0.1" raise port though and as you know when the port gets raised it moves the pipe both up and out. HOWEVER, I know they have changed the design two or three times since I got mine. They made them fit boxes other than factory for some reason (know one guy that had them hit the RAG JOINT on a third gen box), then changed them to fit factory boxes again. I'd get a set from somewhere with a good return policy and give them a shot.

NH69Z28RS · Feb 22, 2014

Steiner, thanks for the quick reply and the valuable information. Both Summit & Jegs have them for the same price and I've done business with both and been very satisfied. Not sure if talking to the reps from either Summit or Jegs before ordering would tell me anything more about the current design. I can wait until Monday and talk to Dynatech reps I suppose but all that might tell me is how long the latest design has been out and verify the steering box issue which you already have.

Also it sounds like you agree the 1-7/8" stepped to 1-3/4" is the way to go for my setup?

Thanks again,
Scott

Steiner · Feb 22, 2014

Well, you've probably got a helluva lot more motor than I do. On Dynatech's website they've got the info copied below. I know when they changed them a while back the notes were different on the PS box fitment. They also change the part number every time they redesign them I think.
***The GM heads they list below have a 0.200" raised port.

67-69 CAMARO & 68-72 NOVA

Small Block Chevy
When using some angle plug heads, a "short style" spark plug and 90 degree boot may be required.
Designed for the stock OEM power or manual steering box and newer 700 Model Saginaw Steering Box.
Designed to fit around factory A/C box with OEM heads.
Will fit around Powerglide transmissions Will work with factory 4-speed and Z-Bar linkage Will work with a T56 trans and hydraulic linkage.
Will fit 153 or 168 tooth flexplate.

Will fit the following head configurations:
• Dart Pro# 11320010/Straight Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Iron Eagle# 10510010P/Straight Plug/Cast Iron Head
• GM Performance Casting# 0-12367712/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• LT GM Head Casting# 102076491/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Pro# 11310010/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Iron Eagle# 10510020P/Angle Plug/Cast Iron Head

NH69Z28RS · Feb 22, 2014

Steiner said:
Well, you've probably got a helluva lot more motor than I do. On Dynatech's website they've got the info copied below. I know when they changed them a while back the notes were different on the PS box fitment. They also change the part number every time they redesign them I think.
***The GM heads they list below have a 0.200" raised port.

67-69 CAMARO & 68-72 NOVA

Small Block Chevy
When using some angle plug heads, a "short style" spark plug and 90 degree boot may be required.
Designed for the stock OEM power or manual steering box and newer 700 Model Saginaw Steering Box.
Designed to fit around factory A/C box with OEM heads.
Will fit around Powerglide transmissions Will work with factory 4-speed and Z-Bar linkage Will work with a T56 trans and hydraulic linkage.
Will fit 153 or 168 tooth flexplate.

Will fit the following head configurations:
• Dart Pro# 11320010/Straight Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Iron Eagle# 10510010P/Straight Plug/Cast Iron Head
• GM Performance Casting# 0-12367712/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• LT GM Head Casting# 102076491/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Pro# 11310010/Angle Plug/Aluminum Head
• Dart Iron Eagle# 10510020P/Angle Plug/Cast Iron Head

Yes more motor perhaps but who can really say how much more

Well I wouldn't think the difference between a 0.200" raised exhaust port and a 0.250" raised exhaust would be enough to cause an issue, but hearing from someone that has already tried this combo or the manufacturer would just make me feel better. If they have to be returned, I'm guessing I'll be paying the return shipping.

All the rest of the details on fitment sound like they will work fine with my setup. I guess they intend these headers to fit regardless of which motor stands the car has, the 302/350 stands or all the other V8 stands?

Steiner · Feb 22, 2014

I've installed my motor with both stands, fitment was about the same maybe more clearance with the 307 stands actually. But again these are some earlier ones. Heck they ought to be better by now you'd think.

NH69Z28RS · Feb 22, 2014

I agree with you Steiner, so I think I'll call Summit and order a set. While both Summit and Jegs have the same price and free shipping, Jegs has an oversized shipping up-charge so I think I'll order from Summit if they really do ship for free. Thanks for the information. BTW, nice dyno numbers in the other thread with George, I like where your torque is between 3,500+ and 4,500+ and I see you like me do have thoughts of a small block 427 at some point :yes:

Steiner · Feb 22, 2014

Hey thanks.

Yeah, sometimes you just gotta eat it. A while back I ordered a half dozen steering wheels at one time from Summit to see which one I liked best, then paid to ship the rest back.

NH69Z28RS · Feb 22, 2014

Pulled the trigger on a set from Summit and it was free shipping, should have them the middle of this week. Hoping I don't have to eat a return shipping but realize it might happen. I'll post back how they fit in hopes someone else in the future may benefit from the information. Thanks again Steiner :beers:

Steiner · Feb 22, 2014

You bet. Best of luck with them. I bet you'll be helping out a whole lot of people.
And remember....a chainsaw sharpening bit in a Dremel will walk through a steering box.

NH69Z28RS · Feb 27, 2014

So my new Dynatech headers arrived today, I was concerned when I saw the box, damaged at both ends;

When I opened the box, I was surprised that an item like this isn't wrapped in some sort of protective coating. Just a small amount of brown paper stuffing and a cardboard divider separating the two headers which wasn't even the full size of the box. The end result is that they didn't come out of the box in like new condition, they have very visible scratches on three of the primary tubes and black marks (I don't know if it's a buildup of some sort or the ceramic coating worn through) on two of those same primary tubes. I'm not trying to be difficult but I expected more than this for $620 dollars;

I called Summit and the representative was very responsive agreeing that they should not be this way. He filed a claim with the carrier (UPS) who we both believe is responsible, as I at least cannot believe Summit would pull a box out of their warehouse shelves in that condition and ship it that way. He said he'd request they (the Summit warehouse workers) add some extra packing to protect this next set and said he'd get them shipped right out to me.

I'm beginning to think the UPS workers aren't any better at handling items than the airport baggage workers :sad:

Hopefully by next Monday I'll have another box to open, and between now and then I have a call coming from UPS as the Summit rep told me the damaged set are their problem.

Has anyone else has had damaged headers upon arrival like this?

Sosh67 · Feb 27, 2014

I own a 383 stroker (67) with PS and had issues
With the super comps as well. I bought dogie headers
And they are the best fit I have seen.

They do not collide with the PS and are built so you
Can fasten down each exhaust bolt fully with a wrench.

I do have super comps on my 67 454 with no issue
But it does not have PS.

Steiner · Feb 27, 2014

Here's the silver lining: you get to test fit them and if you mark one up you've got another set on the way.

BTW mine were wrapped up in foam sheeting and then packed in the butcher paper. Actually left the foam on them while installing. I've seen package sort equipment and that stuff can be rough if there's a jam. Been down in the bowels of an airport as well and trust me you don't want to put anything in checked baggage that you care about.

Dynatech's new packing may be why Speedway has like 30 sets in their garage sale section now.

NH69Z28RS · Feb 27, 2014

Steiner said:
Here's the silver lining: you get to test fit them and if you mark one up you've got another set on the way.

BTW mine were wrapped up in foam sheeting and then packed in the butcher paper. Actually left the foam on them while installing. I've seen package sort equipment and that stuff can be rough if there's a jam. Been down in the bowels of an airport as well and trust me you don't want to put anything in checked baggage that you care about.

Dynatech's new packing may be why Speedway has like 30 sets in their garage sale section now.

Steiner, yes I agree with the silver lining in this scenario. These were not wrapped in anything, just some brown butcher paper material stuffed in the voids around them so they must have been from the "old packing" run. This first damaged set came from the Summit Ohio warehouse. The replacement set is coming from the Summit Georgia warehouse. It will be interesting to see how this second set looks and if they survive the shipping any better than the first set.

Yes, I'm aware of the airport bowels and at least some of what goes on. I just expected that UPS would do a better job. The other kicker was that UPS left them down on the edge of the driveway closer to the road than my house without even placing one of their clear plastic protective bags over them. I used to be impressed with the service UPS provided, but since fall of 2013, their quality and level of service has really fallen off dramatically. Of course we lost our regular driver back then and the replacements since fall far short of what Bunny's level of service was, yes that was our drivers name and she was top notch at her job...

Bunny, wherever you are, please come back?

keithl1967 · Feb 28, 2014

NH69Z28RS said:
So my new Dynatech headers arrived today, I was concerned when I saw the box, damaged at both ends;

When I opened the box, I was surprised that an item like this isn't wrapped in some sort of protective coating. Just a small amount of brown paper stuffing and a cardboard divider separating the two headers which wasn't even the full size of the box. The end result is that they didn't come out of the box in like new condition, they have very visible scratches on three of the primary tubes and black marks (I don't know if it's a buildup of some sort or the ceramic coating worn through) on two of those same primary tubes. I'm not trying to be difficult but I expected more than this for $620 dollars;

I called Summit and the representative was very responsive agreeing that they should not be this way. He filed a claim with the carrier (UPS) who we both believe is responsible, as I at least cannot believe Summit would pull a box out of their warehouse shelves in that condition and ship it that way. He said he'd request they (the Summit warehouse workers) add some extra packing to protect this next set and said he'd get them shipped right out to me.

I'm beginning to think the UPS workers aren't any better at handling items than the airport baggage workers :sad:

Hopefully by next Monday I'll have another box to open, and between now and then I have a call coming from UPS as the Summit rep told me the damaged set are their problem.

Has anyone else has had damaged headers upon arrival like this?

I'll bet when the new ones come in, they will be wrapped and packed better. I'd be willing to bet what you have there is a return/re-stocked item...Probably not the fault of UPS, but of the previous owner of them that shipped them back to summit without all of the original packing. I've bought two sets of ceramic coated headers, and both were nicely wrapped in plastic and padded (Flowtechs and Patriots--both substantially less expensive than your dynatechs)...

NH69Z28RS · Feb 28, 2014

keithl1967 said:
I'll bet when the new ones come in, they will be wrapped and packed better. I'd be willing to bet what you have there is a return/re-stocked item...Probably not the fault of UPS, but of the previous owner of them that shipped them back to summit without all of the original packing. I've bought two sets of ceramic coated headers, and both were nicely wrapped in plastic and padded (Flowtechs and Patriots--both substantially less expensive than your dynatechs)...

Hey Keith, I'm hopeful you are correct that the next set will be much better protected and packaged. And I too began to wonder if the set I received was a returned/restocked item, but the one thing that gives me reason to believe that is NOT the case is the box was stapled together with those heavy duty copper clad staples. I doubt the average car enthusiast has access to equipment necessary to re-staple the box, and there were no extra staple holes in the box indicating the box was ever opened and re-stapled

NH69Z28RS · Mar 16, 2014

Figured it was time to post what has taken place since the first set of headers were picked up by UPS as damaged items and the second replacement set from Summit arrived. The bad news, the second set came in a box that had no less than 6 punctures in it and had been wrapped at least 60% in packing tape. Upon opening the box (which clearly had been opened at least once before) there was more packing material inside but still just the brown paper type packing. The good news is that this set were in better shape, now black marks but still scratches in the coating where the tubes were rubbing the inside of the box.

I called Dynatech and spoke with a couple of their employees about the situation and asked if the fine scratches could be polished out IF I decided to keep this set rather than try for another that might arrive worse than the first or this second set. Their Product Manager Greg confirmed that the coating can be fine wet sanded if needed (1200 grit or higher) and then polished with aluminum polish as the ceramic coating has a very high content of aluminum. Greg also told me the two sets of headers I received from Summit are at least six months old as approximately six months ago they started plastic bagging the headers before they pack them in the cardboard shipping box to eliminate the scratch issues.

So before spending any time or effort try to polish this set, I decided to install the rag joint and then test fit the drivers side header as to me that looked like the most likely problem area as far as fitment goes. It was a close fit around the steering box of probably 1/4" but the rag joint is less than 1/16" from the cylinder #7 primary tube and that was without a head gasket under the cylinder head or an exhaust flange gasket between the header and the cylinder head, way too close to be used at least as far as the rag joint is concerned. So after another call to Greg at Dynatech I sent them photos and detailed information and got an update yesterday that they have a redesigned drivers side header for my application which hasn't been released yet and is being sent off to ceramic coating on Monday which usually takes two weeks time. They are then going to ship me one of those drivers side headers to test fit and see if it will work out with my AFR 210 raised exhaust port heads.

I have had nothing but an extremely positive experience with Dynatech thus far, they have been willing to do whatever they need to so I'll have a product that works without modifying anything else in my setup. Top notch customer service in my opinion. I'll update this post further as the situation warrants. Again, Kudos to Dynatech and to their Product Manager Greg who has been both super friendly and completely helpful :thumbsup:

flat tire · Mar 16, 2014

i'll be surprised if no mods. are required. but please keep us posted.
we need a company that can supply us headers without modifications

NH69Z28RS · Mar 16, 2014

flat tire said:
i'll be surprised if no mods. are required. but please keep us posted.
we need a company that can supply us headers without modifications

Hey Kevin, I'm hoping you are wrong and being hopefully optimistic that the changes they have made will take care of the problem, but I am a realist and I am aware there may be further modifications necessary in order to reach the intended goal. But again, Dynatech has been very responsive to the problem and fairly quick to act, though this latest change was already in the works before I made them aware of my situation. I will definitely keep you posted.

Steiner · Mar 16, 2014

I know waiting stinks, but really I don't know what else anyone could ask of Dynatech. Looks like you're having a rough experience but at least if you're going to have one it's nice to have a company like that on the other side. I hope it works out and I think it will.

Replacement Headers Sizing And Brand Guidance Requested

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

Sosh67

Steiner

NH69Z28RS

keithl1967

NH69Z28RS

NH69Z28RS

flat tire

NH69Z28RS

Steiner

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities