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Jesses

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
hello all,

i'm intrerested in building a mountain mouse motor out of an olds rocket block. wondering if anyoone has ever done this. furthur more, i'd like to use the low buck approach. i'd like to try and use as many junk yard parts as i can. i have been looking at some olds 442's and have found the rocket symbol on the side of the block, but i do wonder which years and models have the specs closest to the production GMPP Rocket(both the tall deck and short deck)onlyl information i have been able to find on the rocket block on the web has been from here:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ListOfMoreBlocks/group0.033.html

thanks for any additional info you can provide.
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The Rocket block is a special block and was never used in a production vehicle.
the next best thing is to use a 400 block and crank. The problem with the 400 is it used a shorter connecting rod and has less stable cylinder walls.
If you build a 400 you must bore the block using a plate torqued to the deck to simulate the cylinder head. If this is not done you will have a lot of leak down/blowby.

There are different pistons you can get that will take the longer 350 rods, but they must be ground on the inside bolt head or they will hit the camshaft.
The 400 rods can be used to save money, these engines rattle the pistons when cold with the shorter rods in them.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
hey david,
what would explain the rocket symbol on the side of the blocks in the junk yard then? i vaguely remember an article on the rocket block when i was in high school, but that was back in '91-92 and i can't remember which magazine it was. i could have sworn that they used a production 403 from a 442, but i'm not sure what year they said would work.

i found this web site with some information: http://www.inil.com/users/dlbrown/ofeng.htm#Engines 1964 - 1990

maybe someone else can makes heads or tails on the rocket block quest.

thanks, Jesse
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but whati'm looking for is just a simple answer(like the tall deck came in a 84 cutlass?)
 
jesses

if im not mistaken olds did make a rocket engine, the 350 & 455. i think i have 1 of each as im not real familiar with the olds family. there is no relationship beween these engines and the ones on the web site that you posted earlier. is there?
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The current rocket block used to be manufactured by Oldsmobile, but is now termed a "GMPP" block. It is a high performance block meant for racing. Oldsmobile made it so people could say they were using an Olds part even though technically, it was a Chevy design. Pontiac did the same thing.

If you read the caption next to the first picture on the web page you listed, it says "major components are interchangeable with the Chevrolet small block engine." The older rocket blocks you mentioned seeing in the junk yard are Oldsmobile designs and the parts DO NOT interchange with small block Chevys.

Are you sure the rocket block you have is the one on the Sallee web page? These are high dollar pieces and if you didn't buy it yourself, I suspect you have an older Olds block.

If it is a GMPP rocket block, you won't be building it on the cheap. Read the remaining captions. A lot of custom parts are required to use this block. Custom = $$$$$$$$$$$

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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my new and improved website at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Bummer.

so even the later model olds won't work right. i thought it would being that the bore and stroke are close. there is just to damn much to go through on the olds page i found. it is too much for me to comprehend.

any thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject.

JS(^_^)

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Even though displacements across GM units were similar in the 1960s, engine designs were not. So, a Pontiac 400, an Oldsmobile 400, and a Chevy 400 were completely different designs and, in general, the parts were not interchangeable. For example, A Pontiac 400 is a big block while the Chevy 400 is a small block.

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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my new and improved website at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly
 
Where were you in '49? If you were keeping up with a Hudson Hornet, you had a fast car. Charles Kettering was an engineer at GM remembered primarily for his development of the points-type ignition system.

Kettering saved one of his best inventions for last, as his career at General Motors approached retirement, and that invention would be intimately involved with the respected name Oldsmobile. As a nuts-and-bolts thinker, Kettering reasoned that if an engine were able to use a compression ratio higher than normal more power would be the natural result. But, as Kettering and his colleagues discovered, higher compression engines would literally rattle themselves to death on the low-octane gasoline then available. Engine knock caused by the gasoline exploding rather than burning in the combustion chamber was the cause. Another inventor might then have thrown up his hands and said, "Impossible!"

In typical fashion, Kettering worked backward to find a solution. Instead of trying to adapt his high-compression engine to the available fuel, he set about not only perfecting the high-compression engine, but also perfecting a higher-octane fuel that would make it practical. The results of his labors were two-fold: the high compression V-8 engine that would soon come to be known as the Olds "Rocket" engine and high-octane leaded gasoline.

Introduced for the 1949 model year, soon after Kettering's retirement from GM, the Olds "Rocket" V-8 was a revelation. The big news, of course, was its heady 7.25:1 compression ratio, but the engine featured other state-of-the-art features from its well-balanced 90-degree design to its "monobloc" single cast iron block to its overhead valves to its lightweight pistons. In essence, the Rocket V-8 set the standard for every American V-8 engine that would follow it for at least three decades. Fact is the very modern engine that graces today's Chevrolet Corvette owes a huge debt to the Rocket and Charles Kettering.

With a displacement of 303 cubic inches and topped by a two-barrel carburetor, the first Rocket V-8 churned out 135 horsepower at 3600 rpm and 263 pound-feet of torque at a lazy 1800 rpm. While this might not seem too potent by today's standards, in 1949 Ford flat-head V-8s were considered to be among the hottest things on the market, and they produced just 130 horsepower. No mid-range car in the world, save the Hudson Hornet, came close to the Rocket Olds performance potential.

In the immediate post-war years Oldsmobile had two models, the near-luxury 98 and the mid-range 76. At first the Rocket (or "Kettering" V-8) seemed destined for just the top-of-the-line 98, but then good sense prevailed and the modern V-8 was also offered in the much-lighter 76 chassis in a new 1949 model dubbed the 88. A legend was born. Though fitted with an automatic transmission (the Olds manual couldn't handle the engine's torque), the Oldsmobile 88 was the hit of NASCAR's 1950 season, winning eight of the 10 races. Given its lightning-like success, one could clearly make the case that the Olds 88 with its 135-horsepower V-8 was the first "musclecar," the first in a line that would include the Pontiac GTO, Dodge Charger and Olds 442 among scores of others. In fact, all the successful Oldsmobile vehicles that would follow it for the next 30 years would bear the distinct seal of Charles Kettering's last great invention, the legendary Rocket V-8.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
thanks for the wonderful tidbit. i still keep seeing those rocket blocks in the scrap yards. one of these days i will probably get one apart and measure it out. see if it is close to the specs of the GMPP rocket block. i swear that i have seen an article on making one back when i was in high school, but that was about 10 years ago.

oh well one day....JS

BTW in '49 i wasn't even thought of. kinda like doing the back stroke...LOL


[This message has been edited by Jesses (edited 03-07-2002).]
 
The Current Rocket block has wider pan rails to accomodate a larger stroke Crank, therefore you need a custom built oilpan. The cam is also moved up 3/10's to clear a big stroke crank. It also uses big block cam bearings so you can fit a really big lift cam through the hole. There is lot of special stuff that needs to be done so they do get expensive to build. Wanna spend 1000.00 for a pan ?
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
wow.... i thought this post was dead. all this has got me thinking again and searching for answers...

found this page... http://my.en.com/~thall/olds/ofblk.htm#Small Block Blocks 1964 - 1990

got info on the blocks again. but i think that i really need to just get out there and measure one out. then again i got a friend that has olds(later models) maybe he has one in pieces i can measure.... i'll let you all know if i find anything out.

JS
 
I have a olds delta 88, 455 rocket, th-400 tranny, This motor in no way, will work with any chevrolet parts. I have some interesting olds sites for you. www.mondellotwister.com - The Leading oldsmobile engine builder in the world.
------------- http://www.inil.com/users/dlbrown/oldsfaq.htm Oldsmobile Faq page, contains everything you ever did or didnt want to know about oldsmobile engines, hope i helped!
 
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