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AlotHP68

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Well I think I'm going to bite the bullet and go with a tremec tko600. My m21 is leaking from several spots and if its coming out its not going back in. My question is what clutch should I go with for a nice drivable clutch but still able to hook up should I choose.

its a torque 383 stroker with 3.73 rear end.

Thanks in advance
 
There are a lot of variables to consider besides just the diameter of the clutch disc. In any case you know it is going to be a 26 spline and not the earlier 10 spline used with pre 1971 Muncies.

The friction material will determine how well it holds, and how temperamental the bite is. The springs in the hub will aid shifting and preserving drive line parts, though some race only clutches do not have any springs in the hub. Pucks or a full surface clutch also affects how the friction disc behaves and holds.

The material used in the flywheel determines how fast the motor will rev. On the street or on a road track an aluminum fly wheel aides in allowing the motor to quickly rev back up again (as does using light weight reciprocating parts inside your engine). Along the same line keeping the clutch diameter small aids in faster revs, another good point for multiple disc clutches that are only seven inches in diameter. A heavy steel wheel can store kinetic energy to blast you off the line if your tires will hold.

That leaves the choice of Borg and Beck or a diaphragm pressure plate. The Borg and Beck usually uses nine coil springs that are pretty stiff, but can be any stiffness you want (they are similar to valve springs and can be custom made to any pressure) if you need too much spring pressure to hold a lot of torque weights can be added to the arms to further add clamping force but this is unusual. You generally find weights used with a diaphragm Pressure plate. The problem with weights is that as you rev the motor to gain more power shifting requires greater effort to disengage the clutch.

In the bad old days when I was much younger we made crash boxes out of our Muncies by grinding off every other, or every two synchro lock teeth on the gear to slam it into engagement. This required a deft touch gained by practice, which as you can well imagine a few four speed boxes where ruined in the learning curve. But Muncies where much more common back then.

I favor McLeod in clutches, but I have never had a bad one from any of the name brands. I suggest that you contact their sales engineers and have pertinent data ready such as engine torque, peak horse power and peak torque RPM, car weight rear gear ratio, tire size, and suspension mods. They can make an informed recommendation that will fit your car, driving style and more importantly your budget.

Larger Dave
 
The Sachs kit I got with mine from Keisler has been flawless. 650 ft lb rated and pedal effort comparable to the factory hydraulic clutch in my S10. I assume SilverSport is offering the same packages since they took over.
http://shiftsst.com/

This is how it showed up on the invoice. You didn't mention what size you needed though.
CLG-PK1877-04, 11' 1-1/8 X 26 SPLINE HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH KIT
FOR GM, 650 FT-LB RATED, INCL: MODERN PEDAL EFFORT NODULAR
IRON PRESSURE PLATE, HIGH TORQUE CLUTCH DISK WITH REBOUND
CONTROL, PREMIUM USA SEALED RELEASE BEARING, ALIGNMENT
TOOL, LUBE PACK
 
Only issue I have with kits is the cost.

I seriously recommend a steel SFI rated safety bell housing, SFI rated flywheel along with a SFI rated pressure plate. By the time you replace these parts it is much cheaper to go directly to Tremec and buy the tranny from them, add your SFI rated parts after centering it, then use the throw out of choice (if you have a Muncie now you can retain the stock linkage with a McLeod adjustable throw out bearing fork ball with a new throw out bearing).

Larger Dave
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
SST recommended a SACH rated to 400hp would be fine for street. It ran about $150 with the kit. I know I am at 450ft/lb and 450-500hp. I don't intend to go down the strip but is that enough clutch or should I go with a centerforce or meleod in the $350 range.

I want a nice drivable clutch like a new car would have. This M21 is rough
 
SST recommended a SACH rated to 400hp would be fine for street. It ran about $150 with the kit. I know I am at 450ft/lb and 450-500hp. I don't intend to go down the strip but is that enough clutch or should I go with a centerforce or meleod in the $350 range.

I want a nice drivable clutch like a new car would have. This M21 is rough
How did you determine the 500 Hp and 450 Torque #s?

With a 3.73 gear and street tires the SACH clutch should work just fine.
 
How did you determine the 500 Hp and 450 Torque #s?

With a 3.73 gear and street tires the SACH clutch should work just fine.
Everybody on the internet has motors that are 500 horsepower or more. :yes:

Though without the dyno numbers you never really know. Horsepower is a fictitious number used to market parts and motors. It is torque that accelerates your car and it is torque that will break parts. You need to dyno the motor to know what your torque numbers are.

Big Dave
 
I bought the TKO600 kit from Hurst Drivelines a few years back. I order the wrong clutch (11" - I needed the 10.5"). It's the Luk clutch they recommend, not sure the pn or specs. I never used it, and it's sitting in my garage taking up space. Brand new, never touched. If you want it I'm happy to part with it.

SST recommended a SACH rated to 400hp would be fine for street. It ran about $150 with the kit. I know I am at 450ft/lb and 450-500hp. I don't intend to go down the strip but is that enough clutch or should I go with a centerforce or meleod in the $350 range.

I want a nice drivable clutch like a new car would have. This M21 is rough
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Previous owner had dyno'd all his cars. Was told but cannot prove torque or HP other than I have driven some high HP engines and I would guess 400+ but the sucker is torque so I would think 450ft/lbs is acurate
 
Ken, running a 10.5 disc on a 11" plate is pretty much the standard unless you last name is Force.

I used to run 11 /11" but when I noticed the edges of my 11"disc not really wearing down as they are at the edge of the clamping force I started running the 10.5" disc.

Actually , 10.5 is a little lighter in rotating mass so .

If you look at the clutch kits now, you will see many that have the 10.4" disc on a 11" plate, even some twin disc models.

I have run my CFII setup for the last 10+ years. But when I pull the motor or trans, I always swap out the disc and t/o bearings as well as the pilot bushing.

Pulling the TKO just to change these things is a task, it weighs more than my race ford top loader. Try stabbing one of these off your chest, alone.
I finally got smart, I made me a bracket to mount at the two lower bolts on the TKO case and added a 1" pin that would drop in my floor jack lifting cup. No more dropped transmissions. I had an floor trans jack but the ball bearing fell out of bearing cage so back to harbor freight it went.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Sorry this is new territory for me.

So my likely stock M21 probably has a stock flywheel and clutch. Will the stock bellhousing fit an 11" clutch or am I forced to do a 10.5 unless I change the belhousing?
 
Ken, your flywheel size will decide what size clutch you can run.
If your starter is a factory style mount, not a flat plate dual mount you can check the starter mount pattern like this:
If the bolts are staggered (outside one close to bell, inside one by block further away from bell), it's got a 168T flywheel and can run up to the 11"
If the bolts are straight across (both same distance from bell), it's got a 153T flywheel and can run the 10.4" max.

If you do have a dual mount starter, it would have a flat mount block with four holes in it and the bolts would be straight across.
168T, it would be mounted so the very outside hole (from the block) in the mount plate would be open (starter shifted away from block).
153T, it would be mounted so the very outside hole in the mount plate would have a bolt in it (starter shifted towards block).

You may have either of the bellhousings and while you need a 621 to install an 11" clutch, it's always possible that even if you had one a 153T flywheel might have be installed so the flywheel is the deciding factor if you don't want to buy another one.
 
Looks like you've got a 168T flywheel. So, you should have the larger 621 bellhousing and can run an 11" clutch.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
Thanks...there appears to be no cover on the back of that bellhousing. Should there be? My google search says that a lot of folks have trouble with them hitting the flywheel etc. Thoughts?
 
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