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cam + head swap turning into project from hell

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joesmith69

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Ok guys, this little adventure started saturday. 3 full days later there is no end in sight.

Here's a run down:
pull intake/heads
pull accessories/radiator/timing cover/balancer
attempt to pull cam
ask why cam won't come out, DUH fuel pump
pull cam
install new cam/lifters
install new heads/pushrods/rockers
attempt to install timing cover
realize to install timing cover, the oil pan must be dropped.
attempt to drop oil pan

After pulling all the oil pan bolts, I can't get the damn thing out, it appears there isn't enough room between the front crossmember and my bottom end(crank). Now, I hear of guys pulling the oil pan all the damn time. What is the big secret? Or is this just a case of being the exception to the rule(it's been that kinda week for me). So basically, my car is sitting in pieces with the oil pan chillin between the block and front crossmember. Until I can remove it, my car will remain in pieces, which isn't a good situation(READ: Daily Driver)

Anyways, any suggestions are appreciated as always. The car is a 79' Z28 with a 350/4-spd.

Thanks,
Joe

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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
Boycott Lapeer Dragway
 
#2 ·
Joe,
The pan will not come out without raising the motor at least 3 inches or so. You might be able to clean the old gasket off as good as possible and sneak in one of the Fel-Pro one piece replacement gaskets. It will seal up ok with no sealer. Its either that or yank the motor.

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Bill Koustenis
Owner
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
1971 Chevelle "Heavy Chevy" original owner
1973 Z-28 ..one family car...Brother bought it new in 73
 
#4 ·
Think about unbolting both through bolts at the motor mounts and placing a 2x4 under your balancer and then using a bottle jack or sissor jack to raise your engine up enough ta get the pan out.

A floor jack might work BUT you gotta watch which way it pivots(i.e., moves) as it raises!! And watch your distributor cap, too.

AND--- BE CAREFULL!! Been there done that!pdq67
 
#5 ·
You'll have to jack the motor up. Just watch for interfering parts like the distributor, fan shroud, etc. Usually you can sneak the timing cover on without pulling the pan. It helps to loosen the bolts a little, especially the front ones. Set the bottom of the cover on the pan and push down so the dowel pins line up then push back. A good dose of silicone will help seal up the corners and serve somewhat as a lubricant to help it slide in place but everything must be perfectly clean and dry or it will seap.

[This message has been edited by subdriver (edited 09-17-2001).]
 
#6 ·
Yep, pull the mount bolts, watch the dist cap and fan, raise the engine securely under the balancer. I've done it several times. I can usually do the timing cover with the smaller seal in the kit and some silacone.
 
#7 ·
I have found that as I get older, I would rather pull the engine to do all the work you are doing as opposed to doing it in the car. My back also agrees that this is the better method. On something like my novas or the truck, yanking the engine is a snap....and when I go to bolt everything back up, there is no need for contortionism (if thats a word) and there is a much greater chance of getting the gaskets to seal right the 1st time. Besides, if you want to put a higher stall convertor in at the same time, its right there...you dont even have to crawl under the car
Image


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375hp 78 Chevy truck
77 Chevy Nova
95 Chevy Lumina 3.4L
and building a 78 Nova
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
My back agrees with you too Travis.

At this point, the pan is already unbolted. I want to pull it all the way out to clean it up and also to replace my leaky rear main at the same time. Do I need to unbolt the tranny from it's crossmember too? Or just the motor mounts...I'm not sure how one could move without the other.

Thanks again,
Joe

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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
Boycott Lapeer Dragway
 
#9 ·
Yep know all about this, had to replace rear main on a 79 rally sport that I used to own. I foolishly thought a hour or two, more like 8 or 9 hours later.

You must pull the motor mounts and lift it several inches to give the pan cleance to come out. I like Travis' idea, pull the motor, save the hastle!
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
I don't want to pull the motor because I don't know how to set up the clutch properly. So I don't need to unbolt the tranny from it's crossmember? Just the motor mounts?

Thanks,
Joe

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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
Boycott Lapeer Dragway
 
#11 ·
Unbolt the tranny before you jack up the front of the motor. Otherwise you'll put a strain on the mount and it may break. The original rubber isn't very strong. You need the play to allow the motor to shift upward. It's only two bolts easy to reach.

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Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,M20,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips.
 
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#12 ·
Go ahead and pull the motor,its faster and easier than what your going through now!You can leave the clutch on the flywheel and the flywheel on the crank and still change the rear main seal.you wont even need a clutch alignment tool.(If your clutch is still good)Its a good time for a little paint also.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Ok, I unbolted the tranny from the crossmember, unbolted the engine mounts, unbolted the clutch pedal rod from the engine block. Lifted the front of the engine with our 5 ton overhead crane
Image
about 3-3.5 inches. Pulled oil pan. Took 2 hours to scrape baked gasket from the block. Cussed a whole bunch. I think tommorrow I get to stop taking apart and start putting together! Whoohoo!!! Oh damn, I just remembered I still get to pull the main. Son of a bitch. Oh well, I still think I'll get everything put back together tomorrow so I can start her again thursday morning. This thing better run like a raped ape or I'm gonna start breaking **** .
Image


Thanks,
Joe

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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
Boycott Lapeer Dragway
 
#14 ·
Seems like you are going to have to break all your mains loose to get the new upper half of the rear main seal into position. Just spin it in which will spin out the old one. And don't forget to offset the ends about a 1/4" or so and add a dab of silicone to the ends and just under part of the flat on the rear main to keep oil weepage to a minimum or none at all. I might be all wet about breaking all your mains loose b/c it's been years since I've done this in the car!!

But I do remember using a little gizmo that set in the main journal oil holes that was just thick enough to catch a main bearing and spin it in place w/ the main cap's off but can't remember how I did the seal.

I remember now, it was a rope seal and I used a "chinese handcuff" wire thing on it after punching the old one out!! It was in a '57 283. pdq67
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
So you saying to change the rear main, not only does the rear main cap have to come off, but every main cap has to come off? I don't think I wanna really do that. I'm getting to the point where I'm VERY time constrained. Not that dropping 4 more caps takes THAT long, but every little bit is going to count tommorrow. So, I guess my question is can the main be changed with just dropping the 1 cap? Or is it gonna be a remove all of em type of job?

Thanks,
Joe

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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
Boycott Lapeer Dragway
 
#16 ·
Removed and replaced timing chain covers three times in three different small blocks cars, without even loosining the oil pan.

1, remove timing chain cover and lower rubber gasket.
2, maticulasly clean the inners and outers of the block/oil pan area w/ brake part cleaner.2, discard the old rubber lower chain cover gasket.
4, maticulasly clean the timing chain cover where the old rubber lower gasket use to be.
5. Pre-load the cleaned areas on the block/oil pan area w/ black Silicone.
6, load the groove of the timinig chain cover w/ black silicon.
7,Apply the timing chain cover (little wiggling required) tighten bolts.
8, carefully wipe excess silicon from the bottom center of the timing chain cover outward to the block on both sides.
9, DO NOT place oil in engine for at least 24hrs, rebuild remaining engine.
10, after 24hrs place oil and done!
Never had a single drop of oil leak past the silicone, and since ther is no real oil pressure at the silicone area, it should'nt if cleaned and an adaquate pre-load of silicone is applied properly. However, if i had the engine out, i would replace the pan gasket and lower chain cover gasket. Also, once you loosen the oil pan seal, you are likely to leak oil from the oil pan gasket if not totaly removed and replaced properly.

Just some of my small block build up experiences , for what their worth.
 
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#17 ·
You don't have to pull the main caps off. Sometimes it helps to loosen them but I wouldn't touch them unless the seal is just really stubborn. Dip the upper half of the seal in oil and hold it up to the crank about where the lower seal would go. Carefully spin it into the block. Usually the rear seal comes with a piece of plastic to guide the seal in. This keeps the sharp corner of the block from shaving off part of the seal. Not everyone uses sealant on the mating edges of the seal. If you choose to, make sure they are perfectly clean or the sealant won't stick and will do more harm than help. After putting the lower half in the cap dry, prelube the surface that contacts the crank. Clean the block and cap where they mate and apply a touch of sealant. I prefer good old Indian Head for this but about anything should work. Don't use too much sealant or it may squish into the seal when the cap is torqued. This may seem awfully particular but I do this stuff for a living and customers don't like leaks. The main thing is to keep things clean and taking your time to do it right. Good luck.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
First, I tried with all my might to put the timing cover on without dropping the pan. I couldn't compress the lower seal enough to get it on. So, I dropped the oil pan entirely.

As for the last message, that's what I wanted to hear. Just drop the one cap, out with the old, in with the new. The old one was leaking pretty bad after ~93k miles.

Thanks,
Joe



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79' Z28 Camaro 4-spd
WP Sportsman II heads, .480" lift cam, edelbrock torker II intake, 600cfm Holley, 1 5/8" headers, dual 3" flowmasters:)
 
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joesmith69
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