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Detroit Speed Subframe?

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Sixety8

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi guys. Looking at upgrading the suspension in my 68 Camaro. Its a Small Block that I want to make into a canyon carver/ Pro-Touring.

Going with Coil Overs and I was contemplating the Ridetech Coil Over systems or just getting a complete Subframe from Detroit Speed.

Now I know the DSE stuff is expensive but in the end I guess it would save me some money. A complete subframe, rack and pinion, upper and lower control arms, coil overs (double adjustable) motor mounts, steering coupler, sway bar..

Its very expensive but may be worth it. Looking at 9500.00 (rough guestimate) plus shipping charges to New York.

I don't want to say money is not an problem because well money will always be a problem but I have the money now. If I don't spend it on the camaro, I will wind up spending it on a pool or something silly the wife wants LOL.

So what are your thoughts?

Any better idea's?

The rear suspension is completely stock right now. I could go Ride Tech and get a complete suspension kit for around 10,500.00 but I would need to install it all and have the four link welded in and that gets very pricey. I don't want to spend 15000 on the suspension just yet so I figured to the entire front suspension first and then save up and get the rear suspension completed at a later date.


Thoughts? Opinions?
 
#2 ·
IMHO the DSE sub is over kill for all but the hardcore PT cars.

Other options are Speedtech, Heidts, TCI to name a few

Honestly unless your ultimate goal in investing Big $ in an all out protur build I would suggest:

Build up your stock sub with A-Arms from Global West, Ridetech, DSE, BMR or another good company. I like adjustable coil overs but you can do well with drop springs from Hotchkis or DSE. Replace the steering box (stay away from R&P on the stock subs) add a matched sway bar 17" or 18" wheels and tires and maybe a bigger brakes.

Then maybe take a look at a 4 link from somebody like Ridetech, TCI, Heidts or Chassisworks.

Again you can also do a lot of improvement to the rear and stay with the leaf set up. DSE and Hotchkis sell great multi leaf drops. Add good shocks, a rear sway bar and some bigger brakes.

You can have a pretty awesome handling car with breaking the bank.

Really need to positively define how your going to use the car and plan the build to meet your goal before you do anything.
 
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#6 ·
Check out Martz Chassis. I just ordered a front and rear subframe for my car from them. Was looking in the $20K for front and rear from Chassisworks, Art Morrison etc........coming in right around $11K for the same set-up and same name brand parts! You deal with the owner of the company when you call. He saved me a ton of $$ by helping me decide which luxuries such as brakes can save you thousands in the end. For that price, he also threw in frame connectors and mini-tubs. They install too. You mentioned you are in New York. They are in Bedford, Pa so it is within a days drive there and back......Just throwing my my 2 cents. Ohhh and the owner is Gary - great guy! Martzchassis.net
 
#7 ·
tlryall said:
tci
a few more dollars up front,but rewards are worth it
all bolt in. takes 2 men about 40 hrs to intall.
Click to expand...
TCI is great. I had it in my last car along with their a Torque Arm Rear.

I have Speedtech on my new car and we have a Scott Mock ready to go on my son's 69

Many many very good options out there
 
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#8 ·
I did Global West (a arms, coil overs, sway bar, multi leafs, and body bushings) , rack and pinion, and 17" wheels in my 68 10 years ago. Very happy with it!! I'd probably take a serious look at ridetech if I was doing it today. Just did Corbeau seats (BIG difference) and 3 point seat belts. 4 wheel discs are in my future in the next year. My 2c . . . part of the enjoyment is the journey (picking the components over time). Wouldn't recommend dropping your entire budget in just the suspension - LOTS of other stuff MAKE the car. Good luck!
 
#10 ·
Your best bet is to go to the source at pro-touring.com and spend some time reading the project updates and suspension threads there. The guys here tend to lean toward more basic suspension mods which is great if that is what you want. But if you want a true canyon carver the guys at pro-touring.com are much more in tune with the latest in PT technology. There are a LOT more suspension choices than the handful discussed here. Now my 2cents is that a DSE subframe is a great choice for trackdays, autocross and street driving. Combined with a 3 or 4 link rear suspension, 18" wheels, big brakes and you will be amazed how well a 45 year old muscle car can perform.
 
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#11 ·
In my opinion, you want the best in handling without spending a small fortune, get a 2000 and up 'Vette. If one is really going "canyon carving" you'll want all the handling and safety a modern car can deliver instead of trying to make a early car something it never was and can't be. Yes, enhance the suspenion with geometry correcting parts and make it handle as well as a new passenger car but IMHO its not worth $20K worth of subframe, 4 link rear, and all the parts that need to be hung on them.
 
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#12 ·
onefiness said:
In my opinion, you want the best in handling without spending a small fortune, get a 2000 and up 'Vette. If one is really going "canyon carving" you'll want all the handling and safety a modern car can deliver instead of trying to make a early car something it never was and can't be. Yes, enhance the suspenion with geometry correcting parts and make it handle as well as a new passenger car but IMHO its not worth $20K worth of subframe, 4 link rear, and all the parts that need to be hung on them.
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I kind of agree with this. What exactly are you going to be doing with the car? I think that is the most important part.
 
#14 ·
Great minds think alike. :D
 
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#15 ·
I would do the best you can with the factory subframes. I added Global West A-arms with QA1 coilover shocks. All new tie rods, lower ball joints, .5 taller upper ball joint, and idler arm. New bushings for the front sway bar and new sway bar links. I like manual steering so I purchased a new 16:1 box with new pitman arm and rag joint. In the rear I installed Hotchkis Sport Suspension 2407C and frame connectors. These leaf springs lower the rear 1.5". I also installed QA1 adjustable shocks and Caltracs.
 
#16 ·
onefiness said:
In my opinion, you want the best in handling without spending a small fortune, get a 2000 and up 'Vette. If one is really going "canyon carving" you'll want all the handling and safety a modern car can deliver instead of trying to make a early car something it never was and can't be. Yes, enhance the suspenion with geometry correcting parts and make it handle as well as a new passenger car but IMHO its not worth $20K worth of subframe, 4 link rear, and all the parts that need to be hung on them.
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This is what I was referring to when I said "The guys here tend to lean toward more basic suspension mods which is great if that is what you want". But simply buying a 2000 or newer vette sort of defeats the whole point of fixing up any 45 year old muscle car. The fact is you can make a 1st gen Camaro handle, brake and run as well or better than a modern gen 5 Camaro or C5 Corvette. Yes it can cost a butt load of money but since when has that stopped gearheads from going faster in the car hobby. The technology being incorporated in the current generation of PT suspensions includes rack & pinion steering, larger more effecient brakes, ABS traction control and we are even starting to see magnethelogical shock technology being developed. Not everyone is interested in the challenge of making a 45 year old muscle car perform like a modern muscle car and that's OK. Different strokes as they say.

Now lets talk safety. Yes a 45 year old muscle car does not have the crumple zones or air bags of a modern car but that is the case regardless of whether the car is stock or modified. Which sort of makes the safety argument pointless since that is never going to change. If someone is worried about the safety of a 45 year old car then perhaps they shouldn't be driving one. But to say that improving the handling and braking is not worth the effort because of the safety issues of the old car is completely overlooking the fact that the better a car handles and brakes the safer it is.
 
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#17 ·
You want to dump $30K into a 40 year old car to try to make it handle like a new sports car that's your perogitive. You'll never match magnetic ride control, computer controlled stability systems, anti-lock brakes, One of the fathers of modern pro touring, Mark Stielow, has gone on record as saying the very thing I said. You're only foolng yourself if you think some three point seat belts can take the place of head curtain, side, front, and leg air bags found in modern cars in making early Camaros safe.. That stuff was hashed over in another thread.
 
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#18 ·
How did the safety issue come to this thread? My use for my car is get out on the weekend cruise a little burn and little rubber and go home. I did the G-mod with otherwise all stock suspension and 4 wheel disc. This set up suits my needs, the op needs to see what fits his needs. Maybe he wants to do drift competition, drag racing, the list goes on. Go with what works for you.
 
#19 ·
Exactly. Our Pro Touring buddy brought up safety, not me.
 
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#20 ·
onefiness said:
Exactly. Our Pro Touring buddy brought up safety, not me.
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Not to derail the thread but.

#1 you'll never get a 1st gent to handle the same as a late model Vette.

#2 you'll never get a 1st Gen to be as safe as a new KIA

The OP needs to determine his ultimate goal and plan the build before spending a dime on the project. IMHO
 
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