I am in the process of purchasing a 1969 RS 350/400THM. There seems to be a few dollars added to the price because it is a Z clone. What is that and should I pay extra for it, how to verify it, and what does it add to the car? Thanks
69 Z28 CLONES
ROBHUG
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I am in the process of purchasing a 1969 RS 350/400THM. There seems to be a few dollars added to the price because it is a Z clone. What is that and should I pay extra for it, how to verify it, and what does it add to the car? Thanks
first of all you shouldn't pay extra for a clone. the extras? z/28 emblems, an ss hood and stripes, if it had a 4 speed and a dz302 motor would be the only extra for a clone that I would pay a little more for. other then that anyone could make a 6 cylinder (and they do) a Z/28 clone. If you found a nice 69 rs that you like and the price is right buy it, but don't ever think you should pay extra for a car becouse someone slapped on a set of emblems on it. and besides they never made a Z/28 with an auto so anyone that knows camaros would know you were bluffing anyways, that always makes me grin when I see that. 
...speedy
...speedy
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Z clones are cool and all, but no 69Z came from the factory with anything other than a 302 and a 4 spd. Also none to the best of my knowledge had AC. The clones are nice since you can modify and alter things and not feel guilty about not keeping it original, but as said before, you should NOT pay top dollar because it's a clone. I have to admit that I have seen quite a few clones for sale where the guys have been asking nearly as much as you could get a true Z for. It all boils down to each individual. If the car is super clean and exactly what you want and you don't mind paying the extra money, then go for it as long as YOU are happy. I'm not suggesting it, but just trying to explain that you will be the one having to live with the decision and if you ever sell the car, you're not guarranteed that someone will come along and be willing to pay top dollar as you did. Just some food for thought. If you can hold off, the right one will come along. It just takes a bit of searching and learning what to look for. Good Luck!
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i purchased a z 28 clone. the only reason i did so was because i picked it up at a real fair price in the end of a long restoration. also it does have a dz 302 but only a th350 tranny. i pulled the z 28 emblems and put the rs back on. but kept the nice hugger orange and white z 28 paint. bottom line im happy
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68 Base Camaro, 355 Offy crossram, Richmond Street close ratio 5 spd, 92K SoCal car
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Rob,
IMO clones are actually worth less than the cars they were built from. If I were to ever buy one I'd have to remove the emblems and probably replace the fenders since there would be holes from the emblems that would have been installed when cloning. I understand if it's a good deal and clean buy it and do what you want with it. I see guys asking 40,000 for "cloned" Yenkos and I just laugh. What's sad is someone might just pay that. What's becoming quite common today is buying a base model car and upgrading the suspension and putting the motor of your choice in it, big block, 302, 383, 406 or 434 small block. To me that car would be worth much more than a clone, because almost every clone I see has quite a number of things lacking of missing or incorrect to even qualify as a 'clone".
That's about as nice as I can put it. If it is a clean car, fits your budget and you've got a plan what you'd like to do with it, then go for it. It's your hard earned cash and it has to only make one person happy, that's you.
Good Luck,
Dave
[ 05-17-2003, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: SY1 ]
IMO clones are actually worth less than the cars they were built from. If I were to ever buy one I'd have to remove the emblems and probably replace the fenders since there would be holes from the emblems that would have been installed when cloning. I understand if it's a good deal and clean buy it and do what you want with it. I see guys asking 40,000 for "cloned" Yenkos and I just laugh. What's sad is someone might just pay that. What's becoming quite common today is buying a base model car and upgrading the suspension and putting the motor of your choice in it, big block, 302, 383, 406 or 434 small block. To me that car would be worth much more than a clone, because almost every clone I see has quite a number of things lacking of missing or incorrect to even qualify as a 'clone".
That's about as nice as I can put it. If it is a clean car, fits your budget and you've got a plan what you'd like to do with it, then go for it. It's your hard earned cash and it has to only make one person happy, that's you.
Good Luck,
Dave
[ 05-17-2003, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: SY1 ]
I don't think there is anything wrong with cloning a car if your not trying to defraud anyone. I am in the long, long process of a frame off resto on an original 69 SS L-78. I've been working on it, collecting parts, even parts cars for about 3 years now. It takes alot of money to restore a car back to # matching concors condition. I found myself getting impatient and didn't want to hurry the project. While in my quest to resore the L-78 I ran across a real nice shell ( the guy I bought it off of was going to cut it up for parts). over the several years I have accumulated almost enough parts to throw together another car. I figured I could use this car as a cruise car and just knock around in it, while I'm taking my time with the L-78. Also I could experiment with different techniques and try some repro parts to see what was good and what was not for future projects ( I do a little bit of side work to help support my camaro habit). I always wanted a Z to go along with the l-78, but I could never afford both so I'm cloning the car as a Z/28. If I ever sell it I know I'll never get my money back ( vin is 6 cylinder) but it will be a real nice car that someone else could afford and enjoy. plus I saved it from being scrapped. Only problem is that I turned this project into a frame off Too, but not to the extent of the BB car. I think if you buy a clone or an undocumented car you should pay for the condition its in not what the badges say.
Since I am doing a Yenko clone, you can guess my opinion on clones. (if I had any influence in this hobby, I would change the name to "Tribute Car")
Some folks use the terms "clone" and "fake" interchangeably. In my opinion, the only difference between a clone and a fake is intent. If you make one car look like another, then it is a clone. (I suppose if you do this with respect for the original, then it is a "Tribute") If, on the other hand, you make one car look like another, and then try to pass it off as something it is not, then it is a fake.
Again, this is just my opinion, but lets say you take a 69 plane jane, drop in a 454 with a dominator intake and carb, and 700R4 tranny, install houndstooth interior, and weld wheels, and paint it viper red. Then you put on Yenko stripes, and call it a Yenko clone. IMO, that is not a Yenko clone, but rather a cool street rod, with Yenko stripes.
Said another way, Stripes to not a clone, make.
As for price, you know the drill about one man's trash is another man's treasure. Dave, you are entitled to laugh at the prices some clones are getting, but while you are laughing, someone is buying.
Turn that around, and look at the prices real Yenko/COPOs are bringing. Same thing goes here. The prices have risen so dramatically that they are out of reach for all but the most wealthy. Take a guy who bought his 10 years ago for $20-25 grand. He may decide to sell for $150, and he may be laughing (albiet, all the way to the bank) But the point is, in order to sell for $150, someone has to buy for $150.
Some folks use the terms "clone" and "fake" interchangeably. In my opinion, the only difference between a clone and a fake is intent. If you make one car look like another, then it is a clone. (I suppose if you do this with respect for the original, then it is a "Tribute") If, on the other hand, you make one car look like another, and then try to pass it off as something it is not, then it is a fake.
Again, this is just my opinion, but lets say you take a 69 plane jane, drop in a 454 with a dominator intake and carb, and 700R4 tranny, install houndstooth interior, and weld wheels, and paint it viper red. Then you put on Yenko stripes, and call it a Yenko clone. IMO, that is not a Yenko clone, but rather a cool street rod, with Yenko stripes.
Said another way, Stripes to not a clone, make.
As for price, you know the drill about one man's trash is another man's treasure. Dave, you are entitled to laugh at the prices some clones are getting, but while you are laughing, someone is buying.
Turn that around, and look at the prices real Yenko/COPOs are bringing. Same thing goes here. The prices have risen so dramatically that they are out of reach for all but the most wealthy. Take a guy who bought his 10 years ago for $20-25 grand. He may decide to sell for $150, and he may be laughing (albiet, all the way to the bank) But the point is, in order to sell for $150, someone has to buy for $150.
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I bought a "plain jane" 1969 coupe 2 years ago in pretty rough shape for two grand...I relly wanted an rs or ss, but like everyone else couldn't find one in decent shape for under 10-12k...I have put lots of money and time into my car and know that it will never be an rs or ss, just a coupe. Now, having said that, I have redone the drivetrain, emblems, rims/tires etc etc etc. The car now turns many heads, It's very quick (not fast yet),
but the point is this: -even a plain Jane car fixed up nice (NOT cloning/tribute) can command a pretty penny! MY car will look, drive, handle, etc the way I want it too! If I had held out longer and found a Z, ss or rs, I would have paid 4-6 times more and THEN had to start dumping $$ into it to make it how I want it. If I had bought a "more desirable" first gen., I think Many parts would cost more than what I'm paying too. Ultimately though, it's going to be YOUR car (as stated above) and only you know what you want. I would ask this question: Are you going to try and turn a profit, or do you plan on keeping it for a while?
Dan
but the point is this: -even a plain Jane car fixed up nice (NOT cloning/tribute) can command a pretty penny! MY car will look, drive, handle, etc the way I want it too! If I had held out longer and found a Z, ss or rs, I would have paid 4-6 times more and THEN had to start dumping $$ into it to make it how I want it. If I had bought a "more desirable" first gen., I think Many parts would cost more than what I'm paying too. Ultimately though, it's going to be YOUR car (as stated above) and only you know what you want. I would ask this question: Are you going to try and turn a profit, or do you plan on keeping it for a while?
Dan
68 Base Camaro, 355 Offy crossram, Richmond Street close ratio 5 spd, 92K SoCal car
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I think what Dan experienced is pretty common today. The legit SS and Z cars are pulling some high prices and will only get higher. They're appreciating faster than anyones income, so I see a trend that I expect to continue and that is the everyday Camaro hobbyist is slowly being priced out of those cars, at least the nice ones. I'm not saying they can't afford them, just that common sense kicks in before you spend the kids college fund or retirement. There are priorities unfortunately for most of us.
The base model cars are a great option and becoming very popular. Like Dan said with the drivetrain you want to install along with upgraded suspension and paint, trim, ect., they can be very enjoyable and get just as much attention. I know the SS and Z cars I've owned I was always afraid to do a lot of the things I want to with the cars as far as modifying them. The RS and Base cars I was able to do whatever I wanted with and in the end they were much more enjoyable to own as a result. That's certainly the way I plan on going with the next one.
The base model cars are a great option and becoming very popular. Like Dan said with the drivetrain you want to install along with upgraded suspension and paint, trim, ect., they can be very enjoyable and get just as much attention. I know the SS and Z cars I've owned I was always afraid to do a lot of the things I want to with the cars as far as modifying them. The RS and Base cars I was able to do whatever I wanted with and in the end they were much more enjoyable to own as a result. That's certainly the way I plan on going with the next one.
It all comes down to a couple of things! Money and time! Dont forget Hotroding(I know not Camaro's), was the whole idea of changing something that came from the factory. Some people look down on you if you dont have a museum piece or matching numbers. Not all of us have that kind of money and some months I dont have enough to put hub caps on a Arie's K car!
My question is : why put the Z28 emblems on the car? Drop in that BB and leave the emblems alone!
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My question is : why put the Z28 emblems on the car? Drop in that BB and leave the emblems alone!
68 Base Camaro, 355 Offy crossram, Richmond Street close ratio 5 spd, 92K SoCal car
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Speedy Yes I would replace the fenders. Once the holes have been drilled to put the wrong emblems on the car they have been ruined IMO. It comes down to what you can live with. I'm not rich either, but I can't live with the wrong emblems or worse holes left in sheet metal. And bondo isn't an option. I know others wouldn't worry about these thing, but many guys would. Bottom line is this is just one of the reasons I wouldn't consider a "clone" car for myself. I've also passed on purchasing many restored original cars that have had the emblems and other items imcorrectly located. I'm not a purist, I just like the exteriors left alone, do what I want to the rest of the car.
68 Base Camaro, 355 Offy crossram, Richmond Street close ratio 5 spd, 92K SoCal car
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Speedy I'll keep you in mind. Yes I know I sell a lot of stuff too cheap, but I tend to be a little anal and if I can't bring myself to use it I don't mind passing it on to a fellow hobbyist at a good price for them. I'd rather sell things too cheap and people be happy with them, then to have someone later feel they paid too much. I also can't stand bodywork or ANY rust. I feel like I'm throwing money in a trash putting and work into a car that has a history of rust or damge.
I'll tinker with the mechanical things all day long, but I don't have any patience with body work, so I try to buy rust free Southern stuff. Not that all Southern cars are rust free, I've seen many that are worse than Michigan cars. gulf coast area they tend to rust from the top down, just the opposite from up here.
I'll tinker with the mechanical things all day long, but I don't have any patience with body work, so I try to buy rust free Southern stuff. Not that all Southern cars are rust free, I've seen many that are worse than Michigan cars. gulf coast area they tend to rust from the top down, just the opposite from up here.
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