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1968 brake light and hazard issue

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20K views 32 replies 8 participants last post by  smithlr08  
K
#1 ·
OK, So I am having what appears to be a somewhat common issue, but can't find the problem.

The good - I have running lights, turn signals, and horn. I have continuity through all positions with the hazards at the steering column. I have power at the brake pedal switch and through to the connector to the hazard switch feed. I have replaced both flashers.

The bad - I have no brake lights or hazard lights. I have just replaced the turn signal switch as I had a pinched wire that I was sure was causing my issue, but it didn't help.

Does anyone have any ideas where to look next? The bulbs are working, the turn signal switch appears to be working through continuity and every function except brake and hazard.

Thanks in advance.
Kevin
 
W
#2 ·
if you have 12 volts to brake lights,the ground gremlins are at work,i ran extra ground wires to help out,without grounding properly the fixture will not work.fresh paint, us special washers,star washers dig into painted surface to help ground the fixture west 68
 
K
#3 ·
West,
Thanks for the reply. Are you saying 12v to the brake switch? And then grounds where exactly? All my instruments are working and instrument lights are working. Since I have tail and signal lights wouldn't that mean I have a good ground? Forgive me but electrical is not my expertise. I am a fabricator by trade. (millwright) and this thing has got me going nuts.
 
K
#4 ·
Ok, I just ran some tests and from the harness side I have 12.36v to everywhere required. Specially the hazard feed. This is where it gets weird. I pulled the turn signal switch again, and it's like the hazard switch isn't making contact or something. It's hard to get a clear read but the power is lost somewhere underneath the turn signal switch where you can't really see. This is my second new switch doing the same thing. Is there any adjustment in the switch itself or do I keep replacing this damn thing until one works?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
#5 ·
Stop lights get their own power from fuse panel, STOP, then to brake switch, then to turn signal switch, no turn selected, out to stop lights.
You might jumper power to dark green and yellow wires, one at a time, and stop light lit.
Directional lights get their own power from fuse panel, DIR SIG, and goes through directional flasher through t/signal switch and out DG & yellow wires.
HAZARD get power from STOP HAZARD fuse to flasher on fuse panel to hazard sw to t/sig switch and out to turn signal/stop filaments.
You fix hazard, and I would imagine stop lights will work.
 
K
#6 ·
Thanks Everett.
Any suggestions on tracking the hazard issue then?
With the column harness disconnected I get continuity through all points when the hazard button is pressed in.

I have 12.36v of power being sent from the harness to the column. There are no visible breaks in that line. If I put my test light on the hazard power fee with the harness and column connected there is power under the hazard switch mech.

Both the hazard fuse and stop fuse are testing good on both sides of fuse.

All lights are working for running lights and turn signals.

I am just not sure where to look now. I've replaced the hazard flasher. Can I or should I jumper the flasher out of the equation? However I am getting power further down stream from the hazard flasher so I don't understand how that can be the issue. I am completely befuddled.
 
#7 ·
You can jumper the flasher out - it is a circuit breaker.
Hazards get power on column connector Gray wire.
On column connector, DBL & LBL should power front turn signals for emergency flashers
Rear hazard power goes through turn signal switch then out DGN & YELlow wires to bulbs

If you have turn signals and brake lights, hazard uses the same path from haz switch.
 

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K
#8 ·
So I just put a jumper wire at the car side harness at the column. I jumpered the brown wire which is the hazard switch feed and verified I had 12v to the yellow and dark green terminals in the same harness. I got nothing at the rear. I tried the front too and got nothing. When the column is connected I get turn signals. Is this a ground issue? And if so where is this one located? If it's not a ground or I am doing something wrong, what is it?
Thanks,
Kevin
 
K
#9 ·
I tore apart the driver kick panel and found the white door switch wire soldered to the white wire running back towards the rear under the rocker cover. It's ugly but seems to be getting continuity to that point. Which makes sense I guess since I have turn signals and running lights.
The stop lights and hazards are eluding me. I took apart the turn signal switch at the hazard and all the wires have continuity but also seem to share continuity with other wires in that group. Does the hazard switch make a connection as well as break a connection? I also didn't find a ground wire behind the driver kick panel. Not even anything that was disconnected. This is the original harness and has obviously been "repaired" a bit but this is crazy. I tried opening your links and they aren't opening.
Thanks again,
Kevin
 
K
#13 ·
Thanks again Everett. I got those and printed them out. While I am looking through them this is the newest thing I found out. Like I said I have 12v power at the body harness to the hazard feed (brown wire). (no key in car) When I plug the connector together and push the hazard switch in, I no longer have power at the feed (brown wire) or the signal flasher feed.(violet wire) This can't be right, and if it isn't right, what do you think could be causing that?
 
#14 · (Edited)
One member here helped me fix my 67's issue of no brake light/turn signal/hazard lights. It ended up being a ground issue with the tail light housings. The car was painted with the tail light housings removed, as most are when any type of paint restoration is done. When a previous owner re-installed the tail light housings, they did not clean off the body paint required for the "tabs" on the tail light housings to make a good body ground. The parking/tail lights worked, but not the brake/blinker/hazard lights.

To test if this is your issue, take a short piece of wire, and touch one end to the tail light housing metal (inside the trunk), and the other side to a ground (I used the bolt to the trunk latch). Then try the turn signal, the hazard, and brake. In my case, they then worked.

The permanent solution was to remove the tail light housings and remove the paint where these tail light housing "tabs" made contact to the body. I then applied some electrical grease to prevent any rust from forming, but if you have good tail light housing rubber gaskets, this will not be an issue of water getting into this area.

In your situation however, you have the turn signal circuit working in the rear, correct? If so, check the hazard flasher. Not sure about 68, but the 67 model year has two flashers; one located to the right of the steering column clipped to the lower dash for the turn signal circuit, and another separate flasher in the fuse panel for the hazard circuit. When the brake is applied when the hazard switch on the column is operated, the lights remain on solid; brake released and hazard lights on, the lights flash. Not the case with the turn signal, hence the reason for two seperate flashers.

There is a wire connector in the lower left kick panel that connects the front wiring to the rearward wiring. In your case though, this is not an issue, as your turn signals are working, and the rear wiring uses this same circuit for the brakes, turn, and hazard circuits.
 
#15 ·
Do a continuity check through hazard switch with connectors unhooked.
Yes, brown wire is supply from fuse panel.
Select hazards and power goes away - hmm.
Correct flasher P/N in fuse panel?
Remove three bulbs and compare results.
Remove previous bulb and install a bulb by itself in another corner and compare results.
repeat the same method with the last two bulbs.
Then two bulbs install.
Charge battery first thing
 
K
#16 ·
Hey Everett,
So here is what I know today. I made a jumper wire and jumpered at the car harness to every bulb location. Flashers and brake lights work and, as I said before, turn signals work. I heard the flasher relay clicking as well during both the turn signal and hazard test. I then tested one of my turn signal switches, disconnected from the harness for continuity. Everything worked as it should. Push the hazard switch in and have continuity through all 4 bulb wires. Same with turn signal. When I connect the harness I have turn signals but no brake or hazards. I am beginning to think its the harness connector or something. Anyone have this before? I am going to start working through the night so I can drive this for Father's Day!!!!!
Thanks,
Kevin
 
#17 ·
Very well could be the connectors - adding air in series with the circuit.
Do you think you could remove the terminals from the connector bodies, slide on a length of shrink tubing to each wire,
plug the terminals together external of the connector body, and things would work?
If they do, then heat shrink tubing.
 
K
#18 ·
So the saga continues. I was thinking the same thing. Eliminate the connector and direct wire, but before I did that I tried to replicate my jumper scenario again, and now I can't get the same results. If I jumper from the hazard feed back to a light I don't have any power at the light terminal. If I disconnect the jumper the power is again present at the hazard feed. Same goes with the brake power feed. Turn signals still work.

With all the terminals in the factory harness connector I have power present at the hazard feed (brown wire), brake feed (white wire), and horn feed (black wire). As soon as I plug in the column harness I immediately lose the brake power feed, and if I activate the hazard button I lose power at the hazard feed. I'm beginning to think it's a ground issue, but don't know where to look. I've cleaned up the ground in the trunk, and the passenger side firewall to frame ground. The only other clue is the drivers tail light when the running lights are on is brighter than the passenger tail light. I don't know what that means if anything, but I have a feeling it does. Is there supposed to be a ground from the column to somewhere? Where else mp should there be grounds?

thanks,
Kevin
 
K
#20 ·
I removed the steering column and added a ground wire to the cluster as others have suggested. Without the steering column in i checked and with no key had power at the brown wire (hazard feed) white wire(when brake was pressed) and black wire (horn). When I connect a jumper from the brown wire or the white wire i have power at the other end until I connect it to a light terminal. Then it goes dead and nothing happens. Like I said I did this once before and EVERYTHING worked in every corner. Brake and hazards. Only that worked one time and I cannot replicate this. I checked the rear bulb housings to ground and they are getting a good ground. I have checked my turn signal switch for continuity in all positions, although right now I am not even using it, and it checked out ok. What would make the constant hazard feed go dead as soon as it connects to another terminal? I have tested the fuse and have power at both ends, and the flasher I have changed out a bunch. I swear when I change out the hazard flasher and try the jumper I hear ONE faint click come from the flasher and then nothing. Again the turn signals seem to work just fine, its just the brake and hazard. What is the correct way to test a flasher with a multimeter and what reading should you expect? AND if that is the case what would be blowing flashers?

Thanks again,
Kevin
 
K
#21 ·
Ok, yes it's me again. I can't stop. Trying so desperately to have this running for tomorrow.
I opened up the wiring harness behind the driver kick plate and found 3 wires soldered together connection to one white wire heading back to the tail. One wire is coming from the door switch on drivers and the other looks like it is headed to same on passenger. When the door is closed the white wire is powered. The connection was poor so I redid it. I decided to remove the wires from the door switch since they are a heavier gauge than the other white wire. Reconnected just the single wire and it has power all the time. Did my jumper test and all lights work. One at a time of course but they flash and brake. When I connect my steering turn signal switch I have the same problem. No brake or hazard feed power. Where do I go from here? Also the door switch wires aren't working as I am assuming they have no power. Are they supposed to be all tied together at that point? Maybe originally with a connector?
 
#22 ·
The white wire coming off the door switch is the ground for the dome light. Ignore it for now.

from the brake light switch the white wire applies power to the last pin on the T/S sw connector. from there it goes thru the t/s sw and should come out on the yellow and dark green if the switch is centered (not turning) If this is working to this pint the problem is between the dash and the rear. If you have power on the green and yellow at the T/S connector I would go to the tail light and check for power there with brakes applied. Power there but no lights check the grounds No power there move forward until you find power on the yellow and green wires with brake applied.

this doesn't address you hazard problems at all but it should get you brake lights and may fix the hazards but association.

Jeff
 
K
#23 ·
Hey everyone,
First of all Happy Father's Day to all. Second, I have some positive news. I am not completely convinced, but I think I have narrowed down my issue to the fuse block connection to the firewall. When it's removed and loose everything works through the steering column switch. I can wiggle it around and that doesn't cause an issue. I am guessing the top post of the hazard relay is the issue. I am going to tear it all apart and clean the connections as well as check for broken loose wires. Then put it back together and see where things are. It's a very weird problem because it's not blowing fuses or arcing anywhere. Power just seems to stop at the discharge of the hazard flasher relay. But again, I have it working with everything loose so that's a win right now. Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help I really appreciate it.
Kevin
 
#24 ·
Good deal and good work.
On the door wires, the switch body - what screws into the door jam - is the grounding item for the dome lights.
There is power to the bulb then to the wires of each door. So power will be measured if door is closed.
Once door opens, circuit is complete, and dome light is lit.
 
K
#25 ·
So I have the door switches retired and all is working as they should. I changed out my console ammeter with a new voltage meter and all is well. I installed a new turn signal switch in the column, tested all positions for continuity, then installed the column. Testing at every point and all was working. The fuse panel was still disconnected from bulkhead. I looked the fuse panel up and down and couldn't see any visible issues. I snapped the two pieces backed together and still everything worked. I installed the two bolts, tighten the 2 bolts down and everything still worked. I noticed that the rear bulbs were showing different brightness. I checked to see if the bulbs were still good or if I had something installed wrong. I went back to hit the flashers and NOTHING. Same problem again. I speared the fuse panel and everything worked again. Any suggestions where to look? Anything that is notorious for shorting at that point that may cause this issue?

Thanks,
Kevin
 
#26 ·
kev4374 said:
I speared the fuse panel and everything worked again. Thanks, Kevin
Click to expand...
Speared with a sword? LOL

It appears everything works when fuse panel is not mounted.
Sometimes, any item getting fastened will take a bend and introduce a problem - a twist of the panel body.

You could tighten one screw, then watching the lights,
tighten the second screw until no worky.
Back up half a turn and measure distance from panel to firewall.
Make a spacer or add washers between the panel and firewall.
Tighten accordingly,er, snug, not over torqued.
 
#28 ·
When the flasher is removed and installed, how much resistance - read friction - is there in the socket?
Can you use a scribe and squeeze the tangs together just a hair for a more 'touching' grip of the flasher?
 
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