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victimizati0n

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello, im new to this website, and it seems like a great forum with alot of knowledgable people.

Anyways, here is my problem: My 69' camaro fouls the plugs out really bad.

This is what the guy who sold us the car told us about it:

it is a 327 bore/stroke to a 350, it has .490 lift cam (3500-6,000 RPM), a 600 cfm carb (holley 4160, or 1850.. seen it as both) it is suppose to have 12.5:1 compression, with a high RPM rance intake manifold. It also has an HEI Distrib. We are NOT sure if the info about the compression, or the cam are right though.

My dad said that if he retarded the timing, the plugs would clean up, but the car had a real hard time starting, but the car started easy with it being advanced, but fouled the plugs out really bad (i may be backwards on that statement)

The car sat for 10 years untill just about a month ago, we got it started again. The carb was rebuilt before it sat.

Within a matter of minutes of idiling, the plugs turn black. It isnt wet, just like a flat black.

You guys are probably thinking, "all he needs to do is play with the idle mixture screws", well, here is where it gets tough... they dont work. We have set the idle real low, and they still wolnt work. We have switched vacuum lines, and they worked one time, but then quit working. The vacuum lines are on where they are suppose to be.

The jets in the car were 66's, but we switched them with 2 different jets, but they just say 219 on them.. but they are smaller than the 66 jets.. so is thre some kind of code on them that we can know what size they are? The plugs still fouled out with the smaller jets in the car.

I dont know what more to say, other than the heat rance on the plugs are medium.

Does anyone know what the problem can be?

Also, i have another problem, when we put the car in gear, it just totally dies on us. We did have the idle up really high (the tach said 1000 RPM, but we are pretty sure the tach is wrong.. because it will just quit working out of nowhere... ect) but when we put it in gear, the RPM dropped to 200, and the car was struggling to run. The tranny is a Turbo 350.

From what it sounds, the car seems to be set up like a drag racing car, but we honostly dont know.

Thanks for any help i get!!!
 
#2 ·
Boy if you dont know about motor, how can you expect help? Well here I go,,, first off , you say holley 4160, which is part # 1850 thats the little carb with single feed, right? so thats no match with 12:1? So that carb should have 65 or so jets in front and a meter plate in rear , prolly a #21. Should have a #65 power valve and I would suspect that its blown as being set for that long and if it did not have a check valve to protect it ,, if it back fired,, its gone... That allows fuel to enter the manifold from bottom. This is a cheapo holley but they do work and I have used many . Poor car prolly needs lots of help... but 12:1? use premium gas, right? 219 jet is a close tolerance jet,, dont belong there. I also would say that a 219 jet ( that size 21 and a little more but not 22) would barely allow car to run but with a leaking power valve ,, that prolly made up for the needed fuel.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
zdld17 said:
Boy if you dont know about motor, how can you expect help? Well here I go,,, first off , you say holley 4160, which is part # 1850 thats the little carb with single feed, right? so thats no match with 12:1? So that carb should have 65 or so jets in front and a meter plate in rear , prolly a #21. Should have a #65 power valve and I would suspect that its blown as being set for that long and if it did not have a check valve to protect it ,, if it back fired,, its gone... That allows fuel to enter the manifold from bottom. This is a cheapo holley but they do work and I have used many . Poor car prolly needs lots of help... but 12:1? use premium gas, right? 219 jet is a close tolerance jet,, dont belong there. I also would say that a 219 jet ( that size 21 and a little more but not 22) would barely allow car to run but with a leaking power valve ,, that prolly made up for the needed fuel.
Click to expand...
I dont think the power valve is broken, since it does infact work (like if you try to blow/suck on it) but it DOES hang down a little bit like there is some play if you push the part with the spring up and down.

The car runs fine, it just fouls the plugs out really bad.

Yes, there is either 115 octane, or 105 octane in it (it is red, but my dad doesnt remember where he got the gas from)

So your saying the 219 jet is 21 (?? .021mm?) like this one is 21, and the old jets were 66 ?

The car ran fine with the jets in, but it did lean out alot (we could tell cuz our eyes wernt burning) and there seemed to be less smoke.

So do you think it is the power valve??

EDIT** The carb has that power valve blow out protection thing, we had flames shoot out of the carb one too many times. But still, the power valve acts like it is working fine.
 
#4 ·
car is leaning out cause the 219 jet is too small. The motor could also be below the 6.5 hg (vacumn) at idle and allowing it to open and thats a no no. The race gas could also have an impact too, 115? wow,, I have used 107 VP on large motors but 115?

Try one thing at a time... before you open front of carb,,,,get a decent vacumn reading and see what you are idling at . then two steps below that reading is the number of power valve you need,,, if you have to ,, go to 55 or 45,, depends on your vacumn reading... open up bowls and change jet to 65 or 66. If you need to change power valve ,, do it then,, ( how did you know that the check valve is in the base plate?) Any how get carb in line and go from there,,, may have to take plugs out and clean them unless they are gone ,, but a fresh set of plugs will help... all firing,, no loose valves,,, should crank and run but need to check this compression thingy out... good luck.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
speedfreak2 said:
Clairification on your close limit jets: The 219 jet that you are referring to is really a 61 with an upside down 2. So it is a lean 61 jet.
Click to expand...
Is there such thing as a 99 jet then? (I thought they were only in even numbers)

Because the 219 and the 66 of the different jets are stamped the same way.

Just a question... but will gas really effect the car running rich? Because the gas seems fine acually.

We were thinking of getting new plugs though (hotter ones)
 
#11 ·
Close-Limit jets range from 35-74. I mess up on the number 2 though...they may have either a 1, 2 or a 3. The 1 is a lean jet 2 is a middle range and 3 is rich. These were used on emission type carbs. They are just simply held in a tighter tolerance than a regular jet. As for your problem with sooty plugs I would first make sure that you have at least 12 volts going to the distributor while it's running and then verify the timing. If this is an older car make sure your not using the ballast wite for your HEI. You already mentioned that you were getting new plugs so that's what I was going to suggest next.
On the 66 jet in question, is there a space between the 66 and the other number like this...66 2? Most of the time the close limit number will be upside down but I have several jets where they are all in the same direction. Jets generally range from the low 50's up to 99 unless you stumble across a set of alcohol jets then they will go into the 100's.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
there is no number , it just says 66.

is there a way to tell if they are 66 or 99 jets??

Also, were hesitant on getting new plugs, because we dont want to spend all of the money to replace them, then have then just get messed up and turned all black.

Is there a way to check the volts going to the distrib?
 
#13 ·
A 99 jet will have a HUGE h0le in the center of it. You should be able to hold jets of similar numbers together and see slight differences in sizes...you will know for sure if you have a 99 jet when held next to a 66 jet.
To check volts just use a DVM(digital Volt Meter) and check the wire that goes into the batt side of the dist. Maybe I missed this, but what heads are you using and what plugs are in it now?
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
There are accel plugs in there now, they are kinda cold.

The heads are fullie heads. The people that had the car before us obvously changed the distrib, because there are 3 different random wires comming from random places going to it.
 
#15 ·
66, 99 or 219,,, with a differant approach from the bottom,,, it is still lean but plugs are black. This gas you have ,, you said it smelled too lean? Still dont jive. Will car run on premium pump? Could this lean gas be to rich for this car? Need to verify what piston are and go from there... Sounds like you could have a screamer but with your set up , it may not run well , Need to check every thing out first before you make all these assumptions. wires going everywhere and sitting up for 10 years?
 
#16 ·
I'm a beleiver in doing the simple things first. You said the idle adjustment didn't work. I'm guessing if you turn the screws all the way in, it still runs, which would mean a blown power valve. Holleys without the check valve are notorious for blowing them -- all it takes is one backfire. I'd change it to be sure.

With the car idling, can you give it a squirt of gas by operating the accelerator pump? If you give it a shot of gas and the RPMs increase, you have a manifold/vacuum leak, if they don't increase, but if it bogs the engine down there's probably no leak.
 
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#17 ·
Having a rich problem too. Rebuilt the carb couple of days ago, adjusted floats and idle screws yet still the exhaust burns the eyes. I run 94 octane. Compression is 11 1/2 to one. Just put in new plugs, but I did not specify any temp setting ( didn't know about that) Should I use hotter or cold plugs, and do you think I should change the jets? Also another thing, my manifold vacuum is around 13 at idle. That seems high I thought?? If so how can I lower it. Bare with me i am still learning.
 
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Discussion starter · #18 ·
I dont know what kind of pistons.

All i know about the car was mentined in the 1st post.

I could tell the new jets leaned the car out, because we stayed in the garage the whole time the car was running, and our eyes didnt burn the whole time.

If it acually does have 12.5:1 compression, then there is no way it will run on premium gas.
 
#19 ·
1968 camaroSS-"Having a rich problem too. Rebuilt the carb couple of days ago, adjusted floats and idle screws yet still the exhaust burns the eyes. I run 94 octane. Compression is 11 1/2 to one. Just put in new plugs, but I did not specify any temp setting ( didn't know about that) Should I use hotter or cold plugs, and do you think I should change the jets? Also another thing, my manifold vacuum is around 13 at idle. That seems high I thought?? If so how can I lower it. Bare with me i am still learning."

Going in reverse order..You will want as much vacuume as possible, 13lbs would be low unless you have a big cam. Try turning your idle down a bit and adjusting the mix screws up a bit after. You should notice your idle improve some. Use a vacuume gauge hooked in between the carb and the dist and adjust until you get as much vacuume as possible.
You didnt mention the size carb you have or the cam size so giving advice on the jet swap might be tricky. If you recall what jets are in it now, buy a set two sizes smaller and see if it improves or not.
As for plugs, I like to run em hot for higher compression engines so a set of platinum tip plugs will help. Pull a plug or two now though and check and see what color the ceramic is. Red= motor running lean, tan= motor running good, Black & sooty= running way rich. This will help with the tune up as well and give you a direction to go.
Also, with a motor with that compression I'd look to run some 8mm wires to give the plugs a chance to burn off the fuel with the most spark possible.
Recheck your plug gaps as well.
 
Discussion starter · #20 ·
My dad talked to a guy, and he told him if our can had .490 lift, it would be creating way too much vacuum, and be sucking in too much fuel.

Also, when we push the acc pump, it does squirt gas. And if im not mistaken, the engine bogs down, and almost stalls out.

The reason i keep denying the power valve is because it doesnt leak at all, and it holds air being blown into it (Just by stickig it in ur mouth)

Also, if there is alot of vacuum, then it means it is still sucking gas up the metering block even at idle, with the screws turned all the way in.

We were acually thinking of getting a BIGGER carb so we can get the screws working, and not as much vacuum with the smaller carb.
 
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Nantooch
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