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Build the tired 350 vs crate motor? New to the forum.

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milehigh67

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Howdy fellas,

I just purchased a 1967 convertible which I have totally fallen in love with and I am new to the forum. I actually sold my 1992 corvette to help me purchase this car, however, the camaro certainly is not the performer that the vette was. At least not yet. I am trying to decide which way to go. Build the existing tired 350 (out of a 73 Nova) or buy a crate motor. I am not really a drag racer but I would like to hold my own when one of those rice burners pulls up next to me. I am looking for good horsepower, reliability and drivability. Is there a major cost benefit to one option vs the other.

The existing 350 has a 4bbl Holey (670cfm) but is basically stock. It runs well and starts everytime however right now my brother's mini van would beat me in the 1/4 mile.

The rest of the car is fully restored which is great for the car shows but I need to add some muscle to the muscle car. Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.

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#2 ·
Welcome to Team Camaro Brian! Very nice looking '67! :thumbsup:

That's a question I've been wrestling with for a long time myself.
I can either spend large amounts of time rebuilding this tired old 350 and end up with a so-so engine, or spend $5000 to put something decent (another 350) in the car. Basically drop the cash and then drop the block in.
After machining and all new parts, restoring all the accessories and bracketry, you'll have half that amount of money into the current engine.

Don't forget that the rest of the driveline plays a role in your Camaros performance as well. If you're running gears out back like 2.73's, and the transmission could use a rebuild, there's two more sources for loss in performance right there.
Is it an automatic?

I guess it boils down to how much of that Corvette money you've got left, and how far you wanna go with the Camaro to beat that minivan!
:)
 
#3 ·
Rebuild the 350 into a 383. Kits are cheap and better heads won't hurt. You'll have to price the parts and machine work in your area Vs. crate motor price, and weigh out the pro's and cons of one Vs. the other.

BTW,welcome to TC & the Camaro looks great... Marina Blue?
 
#5 ·
Welcome Brian, looks great and will only get better.

I'm with Joe on the rest of the driveline being suspect. If you have a Glide and high (low numerical) rear gears, you'll probably want to address those too.
 
#6 ·
Brian,
Welcome! As you will probably soon realize its the best site on the web. I just went through exactly what your are contemplating. Trying to decide if i was going to rebuild my existing 350 vs buying crate motor vs having new motor built from ground up by local engine builder. Through the help and advice of people on this site and others i decided to build a completely new motor with local shop. I am having a 383 built. If you are looking for performance it doesnt cost much more to have that 350 block made into a 383 stroker and youll get a ton more performance out of it. The reason i went local and not the crate route is i wanted to develop a relationship with the people doing my engine. That way if something were to happen i know they would stand behind it and i could get it resolved here locally. Its a relatively mild 383 built for street use and will turn a little north of 400HP and 400ft lbs torque. A "highly streetable" 350 would have a tough time turning those types of numbers. At the end of the day the decision was a no brainer for me. Good luck!! (PS- I did upgrade my rear end to 12 bolt posi with 3.55 gears last year in anticipation of this...so as others have mentioned that may be something you want to addresss as well.) --Thats how what we refer to as the "snowball effect" begins-- :)
 
#8 ·
A Couple of things to look at..

1. How long do you care that your ride will be "down" .. Rebuilding a motor may take a while depending on how busy the machine shop is and what you are looking to do with it when it is rebuildt. Ordering a crate motor, you could probably get it done in a weekend.

2. Whos doing the work.. ??

3. Price.. ive found they pretty much run the same.. seems to me whenever I shop around the prices come out to about even.. unless you have some connections in a shop somewhere... and it will always run cheeper if you do it yourself.. until you breaksomething that is.. :(

4. The rest of the picture.... when you upgrade the motor there will be inevitably other things that you will need to upgrade as well. You havnt mentioned what exhaust system you have, headers or manifolds, transmision, rear end, gears, ignition system, tires, suspension, brakes, ,,, the list goes on and on.... and on.... and on.....

Good luck and welcome to Camaroland brother.....
 
#9 ·
A vote for the stroker here....and I would be careful about those ricers, some of those things can really pull! Sometimes it's better just to leave them wondering.....
One thing to consider is if you do go with a local shop you don't necessarily have to use your existing block to do the build,( if you go stroker ). The only parts they'll use would be the block and the main caps. You can pick a donor up pretty cheap at a salvage yard if not find one in a local machine shop. Meanwhile, you can keep on cruisin with what you have until it's time for the transplant. That's sort of how I did it, although I had my spare block for years . As mentioned earlier, it can take quite a while to get into a good shops cue
 
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#11 ·
I wish I would have gone with a 350 RamJet now, because I'd like fuel injection now and cost would have been about the same. A QUALITY rebuild and new intake etc. vs. the RamJet.
 
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#12 ·
Joe,-- Youre probably right, i shouldnt have said the "S" word. But since i am one of the many victims of the "S" word, i just had to throw it out there.

To add onto 69Paces comment about not using your block. My engine shop is using a new block for my 383 (not my existing block) For me it was primarily because my old block was a 2 bolt and it was only gonna cost another $150 to go with a "new" 4 bolt. But, as previously mentioned, you would also get the added benefit of being able to drive your car as is until new engine is ready. Unfortunately that wasnt an option for me as my motor unexpectedly dropped a cylinder on me one sunny Sunday afternoon.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Fellas,

Great responses to my dilema. I think I am convinced to go with a 383 stroker. I will have to do some research on the cost of stoking my existing 350 vs buying a new 383 crate. I prefer this because the car is badged as a 350 so it would still appear like its a 350.

Also, the car has a 4 speed muncie with a Hurst shifter. I know the car has the stock 10 bolt rear end in it and I might have to look at putting in a 12 bolt posi as well if I intend on hitting the 400 Hp/400trq mark. I am not sure what the rear end gear ratio is but I do know that 1st thru 4th feel really close together and the car really tachs high on the highway (something I want to change).

And last, this color of this car is called Nantucket Blue.

P.S. I am very proud. I put this car in its 1st car show here in the Denver region and it won an award of excellence for the top 5 cars in the show. Its not my goal to win awards but I was very shocked when they announced my car because there were lots of nice cars in this all GM car show.

Thanks for the help and I have a feeling I better brace myself for all the upgrades I will have to do. I hope my wife doesnt divorce me over this. :clonk:
 
#14 ·
Im sure others will give their opinion as well but you should be fine with the 10 bolt. What you might want to do is just put an eaton posi unit in it. They are like $350 i believe. That should be all you need. As far as the wife, when i bought my car i told my wife it was all done and i wouldnt have to put any more money into it...that was $10,000 ago. :clonk:
 
#17 ·
The "snowball effect?" I didn't know we officially named this phenomenon! It's certainly what happened to me.

After fragging something in my original 327, I knew I wanted a new engine and went the crate zz383 route. After it was already ordered, I went to the "local shop" to get a quote on a similar package. Even tho this shop has been mentioned in PHR, I didn't get a warm feeling after talking to the main guy. His price was about $4500 for a basic 383, regular cam, and cast iron heads. For about the same price, you can get a new GMPP block, roller cam, and aluminum heads. Even tho shipping charges have gone up ($257) it's still lower than the sales tax.

As for the snowball effect: My car doesn't have power steering. All the "muscle" in muscle car was provided by me trying to turn that thing around with 245s in front. I upgraded the alternator to a cs130 and rewired to the new system by MAD Enterprises. And finally, I bought a March serpentine belt conversion kit.

There's so much snowballing going on, it's winter here - even with it being 90 degrees everyday!

Enjoy and welcome to the forum.
 
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#18 ·
man, if I had a car that nice, I'd just sell off the 350 and other components, gas tank and whatnot, and build an LS1 into it.

I seem to remember jackalope or someone else in chat a few weeks back dropped an LS1 into their car for $300 above the cost of having sold their old equipment. ;)

just my take, an LS1 wouldn't be the simplest ordeal to convert over to, but there sure is a lot of stuff out there for them now, especially in our cars!
 
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