hey guys i am hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. if i install studs in my big block, do i need to get align bored. i have already had my machine work done, and had my block powder coated, but if its necessary, ill get it done. thanks for your help.
installing arp main studs
esc68rs/ss
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hey guys i am hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. if i install studs in my big block, do i need to get align bored. i have already had my machine work done, and had my block powder coated, but if its necessary, ill get it done. thanks for your help.
Here is how I did this!
First, I cleaned all the stud holes!!
I then installed my 2-bolt studs in my BB by first putting a gamb of "glue" on them, then installed them just past finger tight!
Then I installed all the mains and torqued them down to like 25 pound foot or so, so that when they set-up, they would be pulled straight.
A couple of days later, I installed my crank by first torquing it down in small steps up to about 25 pound again. Then I used a hard block of wood and my 3 pound FT and whacked the snout about three decent hits!
Then I went around the the flange and whacked it again the same so that I set the thrust bearing properly!
Then I continiued torquing it down in the same steps but spinning it as I tightened it down..
This way, I would know real quick if It bound up and had to be line honed!
I finished at 130 or so pounds, (per the recommended stud torque spec's), and it spun fine!!
pdq67
PS., Before I installed my studs, I used a really dull rounded edged 1" cold chisel and piened the tops of each main saddle right next to the steps so that I tightened up each caps register just a schosh!! I also "fingered" each cap too with them installed after the piening right at the parting lines to check them and they were all fine!
Fwiw, you can feel like .0002" with a sensitive thumbnail here for "fingering"!! And my old Machinist Buddy up at WA Schaeffer Pen taught me this shade-tree trick years ago!!
First, I cleaned all the stud holes!!
I then installed my 2-bolt studs in my BB by first putting a gamb of "glue" on them, then installed them just past finger tight!
Then I installed all the mains and torqued them down to like 25 pound foot or so, so that when they set-up, they would be pulled straight.
A couple of days later, I installed my crank by first torquing it down in small steps up to about 25 pound again. Then I used a hard block of wood and my 3 pound FT and whacked the snout about three decent hits!
Then I went around the the flange and whacked it again the same so that I set the thrust bearing properly!
Then I continiued torquing it down in the same steps but spinning it as I tightened it down..
This way, I would know real quick if It bound up and had to be line honed!
I finished at 130 or so pounds, (per the recommended stud torque spec's), and it spun fine!!
pdq67
PS., Before I installed my studs, I used a really dull rounded edged 1" cold chisel and piened the tops of each main saddle right next to the steps so that I tightened up each caps register just a schosh!! I also "fingered" each cap too with them installed after the piening right at the parting lines to check them and they were all fine!
Fwiw, you can feel like .0002" with a sensitive thumbnail here for "fingering"!! And my old Machinist Buddy up at WA Schaeffer Pen taught me this shade-tree trick years ago!!
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Every block that goes through our shop we finish the main line with a line hone as it trakes the guess work out when assembling and I don't think my customers would to happy with me beating on there crank with a hammer and a block of wood.
Torque everythng up and check it with a bore gauge as that will tell if everything is to size but as far as alignment thats another story and when check the main bores check for taper.
Torque everythng up and check it with a bore gauge as that will tell if everything is to size but as far as alignment thats another story and when check the main bores check for taper.
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Because of the different clamping loads between studs and bolts there is a measurable difference in the deformation of the caps when it is held by studs compared to when held by bolts (sounds silly but it is attributable to the transference of the torque loading by the bolt to the treads). Any time the caps move they have to be realigned (usually by line honing the block) to true them up.
The crank will still bolt into the block if you elect not to line hone the block; but the difference in deformation will cause binding which will result in the bearings spinning. A spun main bearing will definitely require at least a line hone, and probably a line boring job. Since you got to have it done any way, get it done before it spins the mains, it's cheaper in the long run.
Larger Dave
The crank will still bolt into the block if you elect not to line hone the block; but the difference in deformation will cause binding which will result in the bearings spinning. A spun main bearing will definitely require at least a line hone, and probably a line boring job. Since you got to have it done any way, get it done before it spins the mains, it's cheaper in the long run.
Larger Dave
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Rule of thumb is to line hone after installing studs in place of bolts. I have heard some swear it doesn't make a difference but, I have always had my blocks line honed after installing studs. After talking to ARP on the phone about it they agreed that the block should be line honed after studs were installed as well.
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Line Honing is a great way for machine shops to make money.
If after you install the studs, caps, bearings and crank in the block, and you can then spin the crank freely by hand, the line honing process is not needed. Especially not on a street engine.
JMO
If after you install the studs, caps, bearings and crank in the block, and you can then spin the crank freely by hand, the line honing process is not needed. Especially not on a street engine.
JMO
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938 Posts
Us machine shops do things the right way and you being a back yard machanic if the main line has .003 plus clearance the crank will spin freely but its still hard to detect taper and with your process or misalignment we have had blocks in the shop that the cranks spun easy and do to the excissive oil clearance and low oil pressure. (BUT IT SPUN FREELY) HMMMMMMMMotorhead62 said:Line Honing is a great way for machine shops to make money.
If after you install the studs, caps, bearings and crank in the block, and you can then spin the crank freely by hand, the line honing process is not needed. Especially not on a street engine.
JMO
Pay me now or pay me later and most of the time they pay me later. LOL
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477 Posts
I agree with ARP camaroman7d. I also agree with Motorhead62. ARP has a reputation to uphold and they only want the best results or they could be looked at as the faulty part. Therfore even though it may or may not be necessary they only can say what will cover the bases. Yes a piss poor machine shop would do this even when not necessary. I personally would say its a case by case answer. However anyone who feels they need ARP studs to hold their crank in should atleast have it checked. imo But that does not mean it will not work as pdq67 has done. Similarly I have seen many balancers that someone used a hammer to install and they were running the normal life of the engine with no issues. Thats not the way its preached either but its worked for many its just not pretty and when your paying a topend shop like CNC yes a customer should be pissed if he isnt doing it by the book. Again thats just my opinion.
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Why don't you go get NASTY some where else. It is not called for here! It serves no purpose!CNC BLOCKS N/E said:
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Send me your address and I will send you a crying towel. LOLMotorhead62 said:Why don't you go get NASTY some where else. It is not called for here! It serves no purpose!
Just stating a fact and we don't do line honig for nothing but its the right way to do things your way does not sound very professional and you probably don't even know what line honing is about.
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Again, I am referring to street engines and not race engines. Race engines spare no exspense! Installing studs in a 2-bolt block helps to strengthen the bottom end. And, I am mainly referring to 2-bolt main SBC blocks. If you need the strongest block possible, go with a 4-bolt main block. I still beleive that with a street driven engine, align honing is not the best way to spend your money. Save that money for good heads!Motorhead62 said:Line Honing is a great way for machine shops to make money.
If after you install the studs, caps, bearings and crank in the block, and you can then spin the crank freely by hand, the line honing process is not needed. Especially not on a street engine.
JMO
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Shut up YANKEE!CNC BLOCKS N/E said:
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Why should a street engine be treated any different then a performmace engine as that where we differ as at our shop we don't care what the engine is it gets the full treatment.Motorhead62 said:
We don't believe in if it SPIND FREELY its fine which sounds kind of BACK YARD to me and I am sure to a few other people as I will have to post this statement in the shop as I am sure the personel will get a good laugh out this one.
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esc68rs,
Sorry for the rant. I'll get back to the subject and try to help you.
Is your block a 2-bolt or a 4-bolt main? What is the displacement? How much power do you plan on making? How will the car be driven?
Sorry for the rant. I'll get back to the subject and try to help you.
Is your block a 2-bolt or a 4-bolt main? What is the displacement? How much power do you plan on making? How will the car be driven?
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WOW I think pissed on some ones WheatiesMotorhead62 said:
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CNC BLOCKS N/E said:
Carl,
Sorry I got out of hand, you pi**** me off, anyway.
On a mild street engine, full race machine work is not called for. I know you may think other wise but I disagree with you. I would never consider full race machine work for a daily driven 350 Chevy making less than 300 HP. What is the point. I believe it to be a waste of money.
JMO
You have your shop to run and I have mine.
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We have a lot of smaller machine shops in the area that send us stock blocks to line hone and plate hone all the time and we even balance alot of there cranks for the same engines and when there done I sure they run better then what your building. LOLMotorhead62 said:Carl,
Sorry I got out of hand, you pi**** me off, anyway.
On a mild street engine, full race machine work is not called for. I know you may think other wise but I disagree with you. I would never consider full race machine work for a daily driven 350 Chevy making less than 300 HP. What is the point. I believe it to be a waste of money.
JMO
You have your shop to run and I have mine.
There is a right way to do things and there is a back yord way to do things and I try to do it the right way instead or guessing if its right or not.
I guess all I'm gonna say was that my crank kept spinning after I torqued it down AND it supprised the sh-t outta me!!
That said AND the fact that I ran my junk301 so HARD way up there many many times with I still think something like .0025" and .0035" rod and mains in it as well as, it had to be .010", (heck, maybe .015" ??), on the pistons! GO figure!
My 2 cents is that everybody is right here IMO!!
I left off the humble!!
Bucks up, do it right! Need to get to work, "shade-tree" the h-ll outta her and roll on!!
Back when I was a kid, it was CHEAPER to buy another boneyard engine than it was to do one right!!
pdq67
PS., and I don't know how many times I've read about guys seating the thrust bearing using a block of hard wood and a 3 pound FT!!
Sure you gotta use some sense here and not hit the crank SO dammed hard you screw IT AND the BEARING up tho!!!!!!
You hit a Ford "Y"-block crank that hard AND I bet it breaks the snout off it!!!
That said AND the fact that I ran my junk301 so HARD way up there many many times with I still think something like .0025" and .0035" rod and mains in it as well as, it had to be .010", (heck, maybe .015" ??), on the pistons! GO figure!
My 2 cents is that everybody is right here IMO!!
I left off the humble!!
Bucks up, do it right! Need to get to work, "shade-tree" the h-ll outta her and roll on!!
Back when I was a kid, it was CHEAPER to buy another boneyard engine than it was to do one right!!
pdq67
PS., and I don't know how many times I've read about guys seating the thrust bearing using a block of hard wood and a 3 pound FT!!
Sure you gotta use some sense here and not hit the crank SO dammed hard you screw IT AND the BEARING up tho!!!!!!
You hit a Ford "Y"-block crank that hard AND I bet it breaks the snout off it!!!
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Gentlemen... calm please, We all know there are as many opinions as there are _______, well you know.
I've certainly done my share of shade tree motors... an hour with a dingleberry hone, some file fit rings, if she spins without a wrench, good to go. Course, I was young and poor then, knew better but had no $$$. Those motors lived long and happy lives, probably thru luck and the grace of God.
Now that I'm older, and have some $$$, my new motor is done right.
And on this subject, IMHO, right means if you mess with the main line, whether that means studs, or simply peening some loose caps, you line hone.
I've certainly done my share of shade tree motors... an hour with a dingleberry hone, some file fit rings, if she spins without a wrench, good to go. Course, I was young and poor then, knew better but had no $$$. Those motors lived long and happy lives, probably thru luck and the grace of God.
Now that I'm older, and have some $$$, my new motor is done right.
And on this subject, IMHO, right means if you mess with the main line, whether that means studs, or simply peening some loose caps, you line hone.
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