I'm trying to figure out the engine in my Camaro. It's not the original engine as my car is an original small block car. Here is the info:casting number 3969854, casting date J 14 9, front pad stamping CE075672, NO serial number, HI PERF PASS cast into block above oil filter. I know that it is a counter exchange shortblock but the thing that I'm not sure about is the CE stamping. The letters and numbers aren't lined up and are different sizes. I can't get a picture of the front pad stamping because of the alternator bracket. Any thoughts???
69 "CE" 396 questions???
Jcwv
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I'm trying to figure out the engine in my Camaro. It's not the original engine as my car is an original small block car. Here is the info:casting number 3969854, casting date J 14 9, front pad stamping CE075672, NO serial number, HI PERF PASS cast into block above oil filter. I know that it is a counter exchange shortblock but the thing that I'm not sure about is the CE stamping. The letters and numbers aren't lined up and are different sizes. I can't get a picture of the front pad stamping because of the alternator bracket. Any thoughts???
A: Quoting from a Chevrolet Dealer Service Information Bulletin dated 14 April, 1969:
The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine. C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac
The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants [for engines, CRG] are as follows:
Flint motor plant (L-6 engines) 00001 to 19999
Flint V-8 engine plant 20000 to 49999
Tonowanda motor plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint motor plant.
This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.
The reference further states that all Hydra-Matic transmissions are coded "H" regardless
The first letter will designate the GM division which produced the engine. C-Chevrolet L-Oldsmobile K-Cadillac B-Buick P-Pontiac
The second letter will designate the type of unit "E" engine or "T" transmission. The number following the letter will designate the model year "9" for 1969. The last five digits specify the service replacement unit sequence number. The group of numbers to be used by Chevrolet manufacturing plants [for engines, CRG] are as follows:
Flint motor plant (L-6 engines) 00001 to 19999
Flint V-8 engine plant 20000 to 49999
Tonowanda motor plant 50000 to 79999
Example: Number CE900175 designates Chevrolet engine - 1969 year, and the 175th unit produced for service at the Flint motor plant.
This numbering system applies to service engine assemblies, partial engines, fitted cylinder cases, cylinder cases, transmission assemblies and transmission cases.
The reference further states that all Hydra-Matic transmissions are coded "H" regardless
Joined
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6,256 Posts
Is this motor in the 68? I have tracked several big block Tonowanda CE warranty blocks. I've not seen any with a variation in the font of the CE production designation....yet. I will not go into depth on this discussion because a "search" under CE block under my user name should give you plenty to read. I would encourage you to look for a block assembly date under the starter on the flat surface flange and a partial vin at the rough casting near the oil filter. The information the CRG has that is supported by GM documentation says the first number following the letter codes designates "model year" of the vehicle. From what I have been able to conclude from my small subject group is it appears that that designation location is the "model year" that the block was replaced under warranty. In your case a 68 vehicle model with a 70 production year block. If you find an assembly date under the starter it might shed additional light on that subject. The current thought regarding the partial vin being stamped is that this mission was accomplished by the servicing dealer. Again from the small sample group I have, the stampings seem to be rather consistant in font and location? I might add that this information is consistant with the Tonowanda big block application only and I do not have much data to support similar findings on the Flint produced small blocks. Also, my personal opinion of the CE designation as being considered Counter or Crate are both wrong. The CE block could not be ordered by an individual at the counter or exchanged as a core by an individual. It was only issued after being inspected by an authorized dealer and approved by a GM area service representative. Let me know what you find.
I would surmise that this would have been done by SPO after the dealer ordered the engine for that vehicle. I don't think the dealer was trusted with this task, they apparently did not let them issue new VIN's and POP's, that was controlled by the Zone office. So stamping the CON VIN on an engine does not seem logical as there would be no control of this. The CON VIN was a legal indentifier..
SPO - Service Parts Operations
Also from all I have been ever able to find, the most a CE block could have been was a short block, never a complete engine assembly of which many are convinced are.
Also, since the 80's I have seen NOS CE engines for sale. Also I am sure many have been sold that are of questionable heritage, i.e. made to be what you want it to be. They were guy(s) in Hemmings who would find you what you wanted in engine components and match them, I am sure they are still around. They were expensive even back in the 1980-90 era but they had a lot of takers and many of those cars are roaming the streets today or being sold as number matching originals.
Rich, could you check the surface under where the starter bolts up for an assembly code? Also the rough casting for a partial vin? A simple yes or no answer at this time....don't need a bunch of CE's popping up with partials and assemblies. Yes, they are unique from what I have found thus far.
Just checked, No VIN. This unit was/is boxed in the original shipping crate, still wrapped in plastic and oil rags. There was a "kit" in the crate that had the instructions for the mechanics on what parts from the old block to use on this block and break in oil once the engine was put back into the car and running.
I bought it from a closed down auto repair shop (St. Louis I think) where it had been sitting for years under a counter. I do not know where they got it from.
Rich
I bought it from a closed down auto repair shop (St. Louis I think) where it had been sitting for years under a counter. I do not know where they got it from.
Rich
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