Hello, all! I'm the new guy around here. I must say, this seems to be a fine collection of enthusiasts. I've been contemplating the next huge dent in my bank account and studying as much as i can about first-gen suspensions, and have yet to figure out the answer to the question 'is there any benefit to an aftermarket lower control arm?'. i remember someone on some site that i cannot remember (they all blur together after awhile) saying that a strong spring may be too much for an original stamped steel control arm that was engineered for a softer spring. The fact that it's almost 4 decades old might not help, either. Then i saw the comment on Mr. Pozzi's site (wonderful explanation and information; thumbs up, sir!) that it only weighs 12 pounds, and that's pretty darn good. I also remember a comment about aftermarket arms might be too strong, as in a 'three way argument: curb, lca, and frame. the frame will lose', or something to that effect. anyway, before i blow some hard-earned money, i would appreciate your collective thoughts on the matter.
any benefit to aftermarket LCA's?
guccieng
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Hello, all! I'm the new guy around here. I must say, this seems to be a fine collection of enthusiasts. I've been contemplating the next huge dent in my bank account and studying as much as i can about first-gen suspensions, and have yet to figure out the answer to the question 'is there any benefit to an aftermarket lower control arm?'. i remember someone on some site that i cannot remember (they all blur together after awhile) saying that a strong spring may be too much for an original stamped steel control arm that was engineered for a softer spring. The fact that it's almost 4 decades old might not help, either. Then i saw the comment on Mr. Pozzi's site (wonderful explanation and information; thumbs up, sir!) that it only weighs 12 pounds, and that's pretty darn good. I also remember a comment about aftermarket arms might be too strong, as in a 'three way argument: curb, lca, and frame. the frame will lose', or something to that effect. anyway, before i blow some hard-earned money, i would appreciate your collective thoughts on the matter.
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6,242 Posts
I don't think that the spring rate has much to do with destroying a stock arm, you only get the weight of the car with any spring.
What are your goals? Competitive road racing? Spirited driving? Got tubular arm fever?
What are your goals? Competitive road racing? Spirited driving? Got tubular arm fever?
i thought that it would have to bear more weight. here's my thinking: suppose a 400 lbs/inch spring with a 3 inch suspension travel will only give 1200 lbs of force on the LCA before bottoming out and subjecting the remaining forces on the bumpstop, while an 800lbs/inch would subject the LCA to 2400 lbs of force before bottoming out. i'm using simple numbers and not actual, of course, for easier math. is my logic faulty?
The car will be a very healthy street machine that may see some track time, btw.
The car will be a very healthy street machine that may see some track time, btw.
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6,242 Posts
Where are you going to get 2400#? If your car weighs 3000# and is evenly balanced, you'll have 750# on each wheel. If you redistribute the weight in a corner so one wheel has 2400# on it, you've only got 600# left on the other three wheels combined, not a good scenario for cornering.
The effect of a stiffer spring isn't to excessively load the suspension, it just reduces the travel of the suspension and the body roll.
What do you suppose the effect of compressing the bump stop is?
Ever wonder what kind of LCA's the wheelstanding NHRA stock Camaros use?
The effect of a stiffer spring isn't to excessively load the suspension, it just reduces the travel of the suspension and the body roll.
What do you suppose the effect of compressing the bump stop is?
Ever wonder what kind of LCA's the wheelstanding NHRA stock Camaros use?
i love this brain-pickin' stuff! i totally agree that 2400 lbs is practically a ridiculous amount to put on one wheel, but i was thinking of the extreme worst-case senario: almost 1g of lateral force on a 3600# car in full steer hitting a large bump at the worst possible time. that would bottom out the car and place a temporary load that may cause bottoming, where the bumpstop on it's perch would have to absorb the remaining load, along with the LCA bushings and bolts. in that instance, i was contemplating that the LCA spring perch could see that high of a load. kinda 'really bad day' instance. i guess i'm reaching pretty far out to identify any tiny (if at all) benefit to the aftermarket LCA. no such luck so far, huh?
as for the wheelstanding camaros, i have no idea... i'm guessing you're going to tell me the stock ones!
personally, i like the 'systems' and upgrade 'packages' that were meant to work together, so i was tossing around the idea of the global west lowers to match the uppers, but i really can't see spending that much money on a pair of LCA's that don't enhance performance (or looks imo).
btw, small world... i work at travis! thanx for the input!
as for the wheelstanding camaros, i have no idea... i'm guessing you're going to tell me the stock ones!
personally, i like the 'systems' and upgrade 'packages' that were meant to work together, so i was tossing around the idea of the global west lowers to match the uppers, but i really can't see spending that much money on a pair of LCA's that don't enhance performance (or looks imo).
btw, small world... i work at travis! thanx for the input!
Unless you have a defect or tubular fever, no on the tubular LCAs.
IMO-
Easiest way to improve front suspension = Gmod.
Best = AFX Spindle and GWest or Speedtech UCA
Most Expensive C5 front clip (21st century, etc.)
Make sure whatever you pick for springs are balanced front to rear. ie Hotchkis or GWest or DSE same front and rear. Pick a matched front sway bar and shocks.
IMO-
Easiest way to improve front suspension = Gmod.
Best = AFX Spindle and GWest or Speedtech UCA
Most Expensive C5 front clip (21st century, etc.)
Make sure whatever you pick for springs are balanced front to rear. ie Hotchkis or GWest or DSE same front and rear. Pick a matched front sway bar and shocks.
Joined
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10,183 Posts
The only benefits of the tubular lower arms are:
1. Stronger, but heavier than stock. Not really much to gain here.
2. Some use a lower spring seat insert that is plastic. If you cut the coil to lower the car, the seat can be rotated to fit properly, ride height is easier to adjust.
3. Compare sandblasting your old arms, replacing bushings and balljoints, and powder coating them. New tubular arms may work out to be close to the same cost as redoing your old arms.
If you hit a curb the tubular arms will probably do more damage to your subframe.
I have seen an old lower arm crack, so there is some benefit to new lower arms, they don't help the suspension geometery at all though.
David
1. Stronger, but heavier than stock. Not really much to gain here.
2. Some use a lower spring seat insert that is plastic. If you cut the coil to lower the car, the seat can be rotated to fit properly, ride height is easier to adjust.
3. Compare sandblasting your old arms, replacing bushings and balljoints, and powder coating them. New tubular arms may work out to be close to the same cost as redoing your old arms.
If you hit a curb the tubular arms will probably do more damage to your subframe.
I have seen an old lower arm crack, so there is some benefit to new lower arms, they don't help the suspension geometery at all though.
David
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