My nephew is taking an automotive class that will allow him to build a BBC. How many cubic inches can he get from a 454 block? He would prefer it to be a reliable street motor because I'm sure he's gonna want to put it in his 01 six banger Camaro. He knows he's going to have to upgrade everything else. We're just curious what is safe, cubic inch wise, with a 454. Thanks. Mike. :beers::beers:
Maximum cubic inches from a 454?
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big mike
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My nephew is taking an automotive class that will allow him to build a BBC. How many cubic inches can he get from a 454 block? He would prefer it to be a reliable street motor because I'm sure he's gonna want to put it in his 01 six banger Camaro. He knows he's going to have to upgrade everything else. We're just curious what is safe, cubic inch wise, with a 454. Thanks. Mike. :beers::beers:
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you will never get it through emissions.
in my opinion a 403 block is better to bore out. the 454 block has its week points being between the bores it is open. racing or high horse power engines.they used to fill them with concrete or melt metal and pore it in to make block more stronger. the 403 allready got it from the get go.as for how high cubic inches depends on bore and stroke and compression ratio. and the pocket book to match.as for the street i would maybe bore it 10 over little piston top and better heads if you got later model heads.pending on closed or open chamber.if closed chamber go with style piston you got. a good cam but not to crazy.you need vacumn for booster. grab wallet for tranny and to put that motor in that car. it all sounds like it will move it and move it fast. than time will come not hooking up.also that little rear wont do to well with a big block. sorry for long post but alot to choose before making decision.
in my opinion a 403 block is better to bore out. the 454 block has its week points being between the bores it is open. racing or high horse power engines.they used to fill them with concrete or melt metal and pore it in to make block more stronger. the 403 allready got it from the get go.as for how high cubic inches depends on bore and stroke and compression ratio. and the pocket book to match.as for the street i would maybe bore it 10 over little piston top and better heads if you got later model heads.pending on closed or open chamber.if closed chamber go with style piston you got. a good cam but not to crazy.you need vacumn for booster. grab wallet for tranny and to put that motor in that car. it all sounds like it will move it and move it fast. than time will come not hooking up.also that little rear wont do to well with a big block. sorry for long post but alot to choose before making decision.403? WTH is a 403? I fully understand the rest of your post. But I'm not familiar with the 403. Thanks. Mike. :beers::beers:you will never get it through emissions.
403" Olds engine, as in "low-deck" OR "SB" Olds V-8....
Think, "Smokey and the Bandit", Pontiac Firebird, Chicken Decal hood cars had Olds engines here is all!!
And it is a real shame that most of 403 engines have "windowed" main bearing bulkheads too boot!
So therefore, thinking out of the modern BOX, back to our roots, if you want a great off-beat engine, then install a 500" Cad.!!
Heck, the big Cad. only weigh's like 625 pounds vs a BB Chevy at like 685!!
And if you so please you can bore and stroke it out to 550" easy!!
pdq67
Think, "Smokey and the Bandit", Pontiac Firebird, Chicken Decal hood cars had Olds engines here is all!!
And it is a real shame that most of 403 engines have "windowed" main bearing bulkheads too boot!
So therefore, thinking out of the modern BOX, back to our roots, if you want a great off-beat engine, then install a 500" Cad.!!
Heck, the big Cad. only weigh's like 625 pounds vs a BB Chevy at like 685!!
And if you so please you can bore and stroke it out to 550" easy!!
pdq67
No thanks to the Olds and and Cad. He's 18 years old and he's itchin to build a BBC. Mike. :beers::beers:
OK. I just got off the phone with my nephew. He knows he can't put this motor in his 01 Camaro because of California emissions. Let's just say he wants to build a BBC using a 454 block. How many cubic inches are reasonable. It sounds like the school he's enrolled in has access to all the latest equipment. He's going to a swap meet at Pamona this weekend to look for a block. Any suggestions on a particular casting number/year he should be looking for? Any help would be appreciated. Mike. :beers::beers:
It's hard to beat the 496 for the money. Bore .060 over to 4.31 and stroke 1/4 inch longer than stock at 4.25 inches. There are lots of economical kits on the market.
I have never had a failure with the 289 block. It was in the 70-73 big Chevy cars and trucks. Maybe other years but all the block I have used were dated between those years. I have built 30-40 engines over the past 25 years and the block has never been a problem. Even when I bored them to 4.375 for drag only use they worked great.
I have never had a failure with the 289 block. It was in the 70-73 big Chevy cars and trucks. Maybe other years but all the block I have used were dated between those years. I have built 30-40 engines over the past 25 years and the block has never been a problem. Even when I bored them to 4.375 for drag only use they worked great.
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it is a 396 block. bored 10 over.back then they fixed motors. now a replacement will what they have to do bored or not.never know what you get i know now that motors from gm are all mexico.
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hard to beat a 496. Easy to build too. mild cam lots of duration tight LSA...really kewl!
489 = 454 bore +.030 and a 4.25" stroke
496 = 454 bore +.060 and a 4.25" stroke
498 = 454 bore +.070 and a 4.25" stroke
505 = 454 bore +.100 and a 4.25" stroke
It may be possible to stroke to 4.5"....but I haven't seen or heard of this mod.
Looks like about 7 cubic inches per .030 of overbore.
At a decent 1.4hp/cid.....the power difference is a small percentage.
I have a 498 only because the block was already .060 over when we built it.
As you can see from my .sig....it's a stone.
Ron
496 = 454 bore +.060 and a 4.25" stroke
498 = 454 bore +.070 and a 4.25" stroke
505 = 454 bore +.100 and a 4.25" stroke
It may be possible to stroke to 4.5"....but I haven't seen or heard of this mod.
Looks like about 7 cubic inches per .030 of overbore.
At a decent 1.4hp/cid.....the power difference is a small percentage.
I have a 498 only because the block was already .060 over when we built it.
As you can see from my .sig....it's a stone.
Ron
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2,864 Posts
4.375" with steel rods I think, but notching gets close to the water jacket.
May beed a small base circle cam too.
May beed a small base circle cam too.
Mike haven't heard about stroking the Ls7 to that size, who has done that, where did you get that info? I'm interested in seeing some more on that. Love my Ls7 in the 69, sounds like a BB but revs like a SB. Not that I'm looking to increase CI, can't get the 500rwhp street set-up to hook easily as it is. Sure is fun tho!
Read the artical in fastest street car magazine,dont know if anyone is running one yet cause you are going to need a serious set of heads for this kind of set up,cant wait till someone does.I think Mike from Rapid Motorsports is looking at it he currantly has the fastest naturally assperated LS1 in the country
I knew people were massaging the LSX block with a tall deck to 511 but that's an iron block. This is the first I've heard of an LS7 that big, WOW. I'll have to find that rag. My 430 LS7 puts out 630 @ the fly can't imagine what a 141 more cubes would be like. You would need ALOT more rubber.
This build is going to take place on a tight budget. Everything will be GM. Which iron heads should he look for, and is a 2 bolt main block adequate? Cam and carb suggestions? Anybody care to spec out an iron 496 for him? Thanks. Mike. :beers::beers:
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For the sake of simplicity, use a scat cast steel 496 stroker crank, stock rods furbished right with GOOD bolts, and any good forged piston. Id really try my best to find a 781 or 049 casting head. They can go a real long way on a big block with the right touch up work. These are oval ports(you definitely want to stay with the ovals in my opinion.......save the rectangles for real rad stuff). They are also open chamber heads as well, so youd be seeking out an open chamber piston in hopes to make around 10:1 give or take a hair. Thats more than enough compression to make power.
For an intake, a simple performer rpm dual plane is just fine. People are running these manifolds in the middle tens. Granted "most" step to a single plane making that kinda power......but a few just havent given up on that dual plane and it works well on the right combo. So if he is building something like 12 or high 11 second streeter....its obviously more than adequate!
Keep the ignition simple as well. Unless its a bracket racer that runs with lots of electronics, a good HEI style is plenty to fire it. No need for anything too too fancy. It would need some good guts though(the dizzy) to keep stable at rpm. Id check with Dave Ray(ignitionman) about one of his units. There are other good sources as well.
Last question.....if he races it....how fast does it need to go? And, how much street time will it see?
This will depend on how to finish it all off(the right cam specs and carb to make the rpm and power needed for the desired ET). Ive got a good couple of middle of the road ideas, but they may be off base if he wants super rad or super mild. Know what Im sayin. By the way, I lied....this is my last question. What type of camshaft? Hydraulic, solid roller, solid flat tappet? My personal preference for this build is a solid flat tappet. A roller of any kind would blow the budget, and I dont like a hydraulic flat tappet unless he keeps it fairly tame(more tame than I expect). To make some rpm with 500 inches takes a bit of a cam, and it would be prefereable to do the job with a solid flat tappet as opposed to a big hydraulic flat tappet(hydro can do it fine...but Id go solid flat). And dont be scared of lash. It aint like it used to be. You wont need to set em every week(like many still say you have to). Thats in the past! Literally check them once or twice a year depending on mileage and useage with a sensible street strip type solid.
For an intake, a simple performer rpm dual plane is just fine. People are running these manifolds in the middle tens. Granted "most" step to a single plane making that kinda power......but a few just havent given up on that dual plane and it works well on the right combo. So if he is building something like 12 or high 11 second streeter....its obviously more than adequate!
Keep the ignition simple as well. Unless its a bracket racer that runs with lots of electronics, a good HEI style is plenty to fire it. No need for anything too too fancy. It would need some good guts though(the dizzy) to keep stable at rpm. Id check with Dave Ray(ignitionman) about one of his units. There are other good sources as well.
Last question.....if he races it....how fast does it need to go? And, how much street time will it see?
This will depend on how to finish it all off(the right cam specs and carb to make the rpm and power needed for the desired ET). Ive got a good couple of middle of the road ideas, but they may be off base if he wants super rad or super mild. Know what Im sayin. By the way, I lied....this is my last question. What type of camshaft? Hydraulic, solid roller, solid flat tappet? My personal preference for this build is a solid flat tappet. A roller of any kind would blow the budget, and I dont like a hydraulic flat tappet unless he keeps it fairly tame(more tame than I expect). To make some rpm with 500 inches takes a bit of a cam, and it would be prefereable to do the job with a solid flat tappet as opposed to a big hydraulic flat tappet(hydro can do it fine...but Id go solid flat). And dont be scared of lash. It aint like it used to be. You wont need to set em every week(like many still say you have to). Thats in the past! Literally check them once or twice a year depending on mileage and useage with a sensible street strip type solid.
I am the "nephew" building the engine in the class...I actually ended up going with a 454 with just 2 bolt mains, I figured it should be strong enough for what I want to do at this point. I would like the motor to be somewhat "wild"/fairly fast(needs to put out more power than "big mike's" 383 stroker
) but still fairly streetable...the motor wont be on the street until I find a car to put it in, but once i find a car to put it in it would mostly just be something to have fun with no daily driver.Any advice is appriciated.
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Well, here are some thoughts on a couple potential cam setups to finish it off.
First of all though....your two bolt block will be fine if the machine work is done right and good bolts hold it all together. I wouldnt worry about it.
Here is a real good middle of the road, fairly aggressive cam that shouldnt have any problems going way into the 11's in a 496 with street manners to boot.
http://www.holley.com/402A4LUN.asp
Its a solid flat tappet. Here are the digits. 282/292 advertised duration, 248/255 at .050,. 570"/.586" lift 112/106 LSA. Itll have good enough street manners and rock with about a 3500 converter and some 3.73's. Well into the 11's with driving manners too. Id use roughly 10:1 comp, oval ports(781 or 049 with larger 2.19 and 1.88 valves and some good bowl work). With the rpm intake and a good 850, itll do nicely. Keep the header tubes under 2 inches.
The largest one Id run is here http://www.holley.com/402A7LUN.asp
Id use about 10.5:1 and a good 950 HP. Lots of guys are sneaking this cam into the 10's in average to lighter weight cars like novas and camaros. They drive em too. I wont lie though, its a little rad. Ordering it on a 112 LSA instead of a 110 would smooth it out a hair and allow for a little more piston to valve clearance too. Probably still need a vacuum pump to guarantee enough vac for power brakes all the time. Oh Id use between a 3500-4000 converter and at least 3.73's if not a 4.11. The bigger motor would pull the 3.73's fine though.
Its very important to build a more than adequate fuel system! Dont rely on stock lines and a stock pump. Use good stuff. And dont cheap out on some BnM or TCI cheap converter. Look into Edge, ATI, and Coan to name a few. A good street strip unit stalling in the neighborhood of as low as 3000 to as much as about 4300(depending on cam choice) will do. And dont just pick one out of their catalogues.....call them so you are sure to get one that stalls right behind a big motor.
My opinion would be to use the 402A4 to start with. You should have plenty of p to v clearance, enough street manners, and more than enough power to go middle 11's after the car is sorted out. I wouldnt jump up to the real big one til you get a handle on this one, cause beleive me, a street car capable of middle 11's, or even low 12's takes some time to get a handle on. You wont stop grinning anytime soon.
First of all though....your two bolt block will be fine if the machine work is done right and good bolts hold it all together. I wouldnt worry about it.
Here is a real good middle of the road, fairly aggressive cam that shouldnt have any problems going way into the 11's in a 496 with street manners to boot.
http://www.holley.com/402A4LUN.asp
Its a solid flat tappet. Here are the digits. 282/292 advertised duration, 248/255 at .050,. 570"/.586" lift 112/106 LSA. Itll have good enough street manners and rock with about a 3500 converter and some 3.73's. Well into the 11's with driving manners too. Id use roughly 10:1 comp, oval ports(781 or 049 with larger 2.19 and 1.88 valves and some good bowl work). With the rpm intake and a good 850, itll do nicely. Keep the header tubes under 2 inches.
The largest one Id run is here http://www.holley.com/402A7LUN.asp
Id use about 10.5:1 and a good 950 HP. Lots of guys are sneaking this cam into the 10's in average to lighter weight cars like novas and camaros. They drive em too. I wont lie though, its a little rad. Ordering it on a 112 LSA instead of a 110 would smooth it out a hair and allow for a little more piston to valve clearance too. Probably still need a vacuum pump to guarantee enough vac for power brakes all the time. Oh Id use between a 3500-4000 converter and at least 3.73's if not a 4.11. The bigger motor would pull the 3.73's fine though.
Its very important to build a more than adequate fuel system! Dont rely on stock lines and a stock pump. Use good stuff. And dont cheap out on some BnM or TCI cheap converter. Look into Edge, ATI, and Coan to name a few. A good street strip unit stalling in the neighborhood of as low as 3000 to as much as about 4300(depending on cam choice) will do. And dont just pick one out of their catalogues.....call them so you are sure to get one that stalls right behind a big motor.
My opinion would be to use the 402A4 to start with. You should have plenty of p to v clearance, enough street manners, and more than enough power to go middle 11's after the car is sorted out. I wouldnt jump up to the real big one til you get a handle on this one, cause beleive me, a street car capable of middle 11's, or even low 12's takes some time to get a handle on. You wont stop grinning anytime soon.
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