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700R4 or 350?

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67camguy

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Aside from the bucks - what trans would ya suggest I mate with a new ZZ4 crate? 700R4 or 350 and why. Not doing installation myself. Have heard ZZ4/700R4 - awesome combo. Will move crossmember, appropriate gearset, driveshaft, etc. I'll do it if worth it. Is 700 somewhat troublefree if not abused? Guessing nearly twice the price!
Not racing - more cruiser but want performance.

67 camaro, susp. stock except 1" drop coils & Hotchkis leafs. Discs front, drums back, 16" wheels, 2 speed Pglide.
 
#2 ·
The 700-R4 can work OK behind that engine, and sounds like it would be OK with your driving style.
I recently did a 200-4R swap into a 1967 Camaro behind a 383.
The 200-4R fits without driveshaft mods if you have a Th350 now.

Either will require a different crossmember and proper setup of the TV cable and system.

I prefer the gear ratios in the 200-4R but a relatively wide torque curve like the ZZ4 will work with the 700 too, especially with a mid 3 ratio rear gear.

TH350 is quite a bit cheaper but no overdrive, so you either give up good acceleration or good highway manners.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
I have a leaky powerglide now. Is the only difference between 200-4R & 700-4R the gear ratios? Tail of 200-4R the same as powerglide? I'll do some research! I thought I read somewhere that 700 was a better trans than 200.

jeff
 
#4 ·
The 200-4R will fit in place of the Powerglide except you will need either a Th400 crossmember or preferably an aftermarket crossmember.
You will need a Shiftworks kit installed so that you can shift into all the gears and have the proper indicator.

The 200-4R when properly built is a better trans IMO than the 700. It has better gear ratios and with the right parts (and builder) is 800+ HP/TQ capable.
The 700-R4 is good to about 500 HP max IMO and then it gets into problems due to it's design and lack of upgraded parts.

I just did the 200-4R swap in a customer's car.

Either trans will work fine at your power level though and the 700 would probably be a bit less expensive even with the driveshaft mods.

There is alot of argument about the 700 vs. 200 but the point is, both need upgrades to work and there is a place for each depending on the particular car.
I generally prefer the 200-4R in an older car because it fits better in most cases.
The 1st Gen F body doesn't have any cleareance issues even with a 4L80E. I have a '69 Firebird in the shop now getting an LSX/4L80E swap.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the info jake.... I noticed your about an hour away from Garland. Are you part of a resto or driveline shop? Anyway, my situation is this. My 67's paint and body is just about complete. We still have to install vintage air, new glass, paint dash, etc. At this one man shop things don't move fast but workmanship is excellent. He at N/C offered to swap a crate for the 210/327 (for his fender's sake). He may not want to get involved, even at a price, on the whole drivetrain. I think his projects are stackin' up. I may find myself needing a good driveline shop in our area to help me finish this project. Any reccomendations??? The car will be driveable after the body is completed. Am waiting on prices on ZZ4 and a Hughes 700 w/upgrades from scoggins. Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
700 is "OK" and "can work". I'm learning alot of new stuff - I wouldn't go through the hassle and expense if it wasn't absolutely the way to go. Maybe a 350 is all I need. I am really not as concerned about the "highway manners" as much as a friend or two think I should be. Gas mileage - don't care. I thought the acceleration were comparable with either option though. This car is going to be more of a stoplight to stoplight/fun car than a freeway cruiser by far. I would rather have the acceleration if thats the case?
 
#9 ·
I went through the same discussion, here, and with myself. My findings are that the 350 is a direct bolt in (kinda). Yeah the trans cooler lines bolt right up, and the crossmember. Yeah there is no tunnel mods or yoke/driveline mods. HOWEVER, the inside (console-floor shifter) of the TH350 from PG conversion is not that much fun. Replacing the shifter detent is not as easy as anyone said, and certainly not as easy as the instructions included in the kit. The detent kit, and shift rod will set you back at LEAST $100 (aftermarket), and plan on many hours to complete the task. I REALLY wish I had just gone with a bolt in Lokar unit for a little more $$. It is much better looking and Lokar's products and instructions are HIGH QUALITY! But I didn't know how much B.S., trying the stock method, I would run into either.

Now on to tranny to tranny comparison. If I had a mild street motor a 700R would be my choice. LOW, LOW 1st gear ,which with my motor, would probably be a hinderence with street tires (spin, spin, spin). I went with a built 350 performance wise, because my reasearch lead me to believe that a 1/4 mile or signal light to signal light car would benefit with 3 gears versus 4. Using the TCI calculators, I think the TH350 is exactly what I want for performance and around town cruising. Having said all that, on the freeway (with 9" rear and 3:70 posi) I will be spinning the motor a bit. I don't plan on much freeway driving. Reno is still pretty small, so city street commuting is still O.K.

Fast forwarding: my next classic I do plan on trying either the 200 or 700 tranny. I would make it a winter project so I can take my time. The one other item on the 700 that intimidated me a bit was the TV cable. I have never had to 'set-up' a tranny, other than a kickdown cable.

Good Luck!
 
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#10 ·
I went from TH350 to 700r for highway mileage as we do mostly cruising and highway miles. It gives our camaro awesome off the line and pulls into 2nd still turning the tires on the pavement. Around town, we cruise in 3rd gear so it doesnt get into overdrive unless we are on the highway over 55, then we slip it into its overdrive and the rpm's drop dramatically. So far, I like it. I might be around 275 HP at the most. The TV setup suggested works perfectly too. :thumbsup:
 
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Discussion starter · #11 ·
So Strick, your saying for a mild street motor(ZZ4) the 700-R4 is your choice because it gets the most performance out of the engines potential.

I take it you finally did get your console kit installed. Are you happy with the way it operates? You are able to use your original console? Would it have to be sacrificed if you had gone with the Lokar product? I suppose the PG to 700 kit is headache too.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
click said:
I went from TH350 to 700r for highway mileage as we do mostly cruising and highway miles. It gives our camaro awesome off the line and pulls into 2nd still turning the tires on the pavement. Around town, we cruise in 3rd gear so it doesnt get into overdrive unless we are on the highway over 55, then we slip it into its overdrive and the rpm's drop dramatically. So far, I like it. I might be around 275 HP at the most. The TV setup suggested works perfectly too. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Click - How did your shift conversion go??
 
#13 ·
Shift went perfect. My mechanic had the 'kit' I had bought that changes the pattern on the console and it has a different detent metal tab that gives the shifter the extra gear. It went together like a glove.
I just went for a ride today, at 60mph on the highway, straight and level speed, rpm was 1700 :D
Remember Im running 3.08's in back too.
 
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#15 ·
My tires are 26" and the car came with 3.08 originally, previous owner put in 4.10's and they sucked for our driving style, so I went back to Eaton Posi 3.08's. Its a little light for alot of folks that do some racing but perfect for us. It has a stall built in, (dont ask me, I forgot the rpm kickin point). Thats why my tranny guru said to keep it in 3rd around town and only let it shift UP to 4th on the highway above 55mph. So thats what I do. The 3.08 will give me better mileage on long highway trips that we take, so I wanted to have that advantage. I dont race it so the 3.73 didnt even enter the picture. :)
 
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#16 · (Edited)
Jeff - yes I got through the shifter hassle. Keep in mind I do everything myself on my classics, except alignment and exhaust. The console remains stock and the shifter works fine inside and below at the transmission (without the car running). I should have the car on the road any day now (I have relatives in town this weekend, so I am being slowed down). I have been waiting on my Doug's 1 3/4" primary headers, which got here Thursday, and I just got through installing them 30 minutes ago.

The Lokar question I will answer with a bit of <educated> ignorance. The Lokar unit should pop right into place with no console modifications what-so-ever. Another great thing about Lokar is Customer Service. Their tech guys are among the best I have found.

To sum up my opinion on the 700 vs. 350 is based on comparing your motor verus mine. Mine is a natural for the 350 given MY type of operation of the car. Your motor should be fine with the 700. I could not afford the tires (well maybe I could) with a 700 in my car.

One final thought: if you are paying someone else to install the new tranny from start to finish, then all of my discussion is moot.
 
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#17 ·
The Shiftworks kit isn't bad to install. I installed it on the '67 I recently installed the 200-4R in. It wasn't bad at all.

It is also about $60 from Firewheel Classics in Wylie, and they stock them.

I did have to modify the shift lever that bolts to the trans for the 200-4R. 15 minute mod with the welder.

I can't speak for the Lokar shifter, never used one.

I don't like the 700 mostly because of the first gear ratio, and we can get into trans design stuff for other reasons I prefer the 200 over the 700, but the 1st gear ratio is just too deep for most street cars.
IMO the 700 will work good with a 3.23-3.55 ratio. Anything deeper and it makes the 1st gear that much steeper off the line, and anything less and the OD is too high geared for a motor with much cam.

The 200-4R has a better gear spread with a 2.74-1 ratio first compared to the 3.06-1 ratio in the 700.
The 200 has a steeper OD, but the overall ratios work well with a 3.55-4.10 gear.
 
#18 ·
Jeff,
Call me sometime and if your up for a road trip stop by.
I can show you the internals of the 200-4R vs. 700-R4 and explain some differences.

The TH350 is much cheaper and if you really don't plan on any highway time, or keeping a rear ratio of 3.42 or numerically lower, it works well.

Once you have an OD trans in an older car, it transforms them, and you'll never want another without OD.
 
#19 · (Edited)
A 200 4R is the way to go. Art Carr builds reliable units that will not self destruct. http://www.cpttransmission.com/ In addition, you will not have to shorten your driveshaft. You will have to relaocate the crossmember, but the transmission mount is the same.
Contact Shiftworks http://shiftworks.com/ for the Shifter modification kit. I have this setup behind the 383 in my 68 Camaro and it is great. No regrets. Hope this helps,
Tory
 
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#20 ·
www.artcarr.com isn't "Art Carr" and I wouldn't use their 200-4R.
I wouldn't be afraid of a 200-4R from "Art Carr" which is http://www.cpttransmission.com/ but be prepared to pay.

I have several 200-4Rs in ~550-600 HP cars without issue, and I usually encourage people to go with a 4L80E if they are above that level and need an OD.
 
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67camguy
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