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Voltage Regulator Question....

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ryry

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys,

I was hoping someone would have an insight on what is going on with my car...

Sunday I was about to start my car and was having trouble getting it going. It would crank slow, then start clicking. I figured the battery was dead so I charged it up, cranked it over and it fired up. It was a good day!

Now today when I go to fire it up, I went to crank it and I smelled some smoke. I took a look and the ground strap I have going from the intake to the firewall was all discolored and super hot. So hot, it melted to the magnetic pickup wire insulation (not throught it). I start looking around and cant seem have everything hooked up correctly and no loose wires being grounded/arching.

Anyhow, I take a look at my voltage regulator and the thing is really hot as well which led me to believe that the alternator/charging system may be to blame for the issue. I read the sticky and my readings are below. I dont have anything hooked up from the Ground terminal to the block or anything like that... Anyone have any ideas?

Edit: I went into the garage and made a jumper from the grnd to a ground and it didnt change my readings...
Edit#2: Im running what I believe is a 10si alternator (it has the R and F terminals) but definately an autozone vr715 reg

Key off:

Blue wire, alt F, pass side of alt..... 0 v
White wire, Alt R, drivers side........ ~0
3rd term on reg, red, always 12v
4th term on reg, brown wire, 0 v

key on, engine not running
alt blue 10.5v
alt white ~10V
 
#2 ·
I have the same problem im coming too...I got a new alternator from autozone too and it fried a few wires under my dash! I didnt get the readings, but I went back and went through the wiring and ran eletrical tape over everything...and I seem to have the same problem. I put the old alternator on and no problem just doesnt charge as well. Dont run it too long the alternator will get super hot...blah.
 
#3 ·
You may have a regulator problem, but on thing is for certain - you have a ground problem. You'll have to fix the ground before getting too involved with the regulator etc.

It sounds to me like the heavy black cable from the block to the battery (-) may be missing or not connected. When you try to crank it, current is flowing through the strap (more than 100Amps). Where is the battery (-) lead connected? The main ground should be connected to the block with a short pig-tail lead connected between the battery (-) and the fender.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
Ive got my battery in the trunk and its grounded to the body back therew with a 2 Gage wire. Then I have the grounding straps from the intake to the firewall and one from the subframe to the body (which is how I thought these cars came from the factory). Only the strap at the intake is frying... Also another thing I noticed is when I was cranking it, the negative lead on the battery was getting a little hot.

How do you guys ground the battery when its in the trunk?
 
#5 ·
ryry said:
Anyhow, I take a look at my voltage regulator and the thing is really hot as well which led me to believe that the alternator/charging system may be to blame for the issue.

Edit#2: Im running what I believe is a 10si alternator (it has the R and F terminals) but definately an autozone vr715 reg.
Click to expand...
If you have a 10SI alternator, Terminals 1&2 are like this: - - then you do NOT need the ext regulator. Unplug the ext reg and make two jumpers. Jumper the two outside wires to each other and jumper the two inside wires to each other. Plug white to Term #2 and blue wire to Term #1 at the alt.

If you have Terminals 1&2 like this: ll then you have a 10SN alternator and you need an external regulator, or maybe a new regulator now.

You also need to ground from the engine block, cast iron, to, the easiset bolt is one of the idler bolts on the subframe AND to a body bolt, maybe one of the firewall fender bolts. This is the reason why the ground strap burnt because of the lack of current capability, it can't handle 150 amps.

2/0 AWG should be of good size. I ground to the rear frame rail and ran a postitive cable from the cut-off sw to the starter solenoid and source power from the solenoid post.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
The terminals on the alternator are definately ||.

Ok, I will definatley ground the block to the body then...

Since this is my first car that Ive ever been working on, Im curious and figuring things out as I go. Why is it that the ground strap that goes from the subframe to the body didnt fry as well. If the block was grounded to the body and the frame from the factory, what's the purpose of the grounding straps? It just seems like its redundant.

Thanks so much for everyones help!! this is something Ive wanted to do my whole life but never had anyone show me whats going on so Im learning from my mistakes.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
ok, So my question then becomes, if the motor is not grounded properly, and is infact being grounded through the grounding straps (the reason its frying), then if I removed that strap should the motor still be able to turn over?

On my lunch break, I removed the grounding strap and it still turned over as it did before... (still no cable from the engine to the frame)

Also, can I run the battery cable to the body instead of the frame?
 
#10 ·
ryry said:
ok, So my question then becomes, if the motor is not grounded properly, and is infact being grounded through the grounding straps (the reason its frying), then if I removed that strap should the motor still be able to turn over?

On my lunch break, I removed the grounding strap and it still turned over as it did before... (still no cable from the engine to the frame)

Also, can I run the battery cable to the body instead of the frame?
Click to expand...

It is finding ground, it is the "QUALITY" of ground. The starter need lots-o-amps to turn a mildly modded engine.The less resistance between the neg term on battery to starter case,the more effecient. I would run heavy cable from battery to engine block and ground to frame/ body along the way.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
A-HA! "the path of least resisitance"... Makes perfect sense now. Ill have to do this when I get home. Im sorry I get all confused and ask ridiculous questions so often. Im pretty new at this but this question I should have been able to deal with on my own :eek: Thanks for all your help guys. :beers:
 
#12 ·
No question is ridiculous.

And you do need a BIG ground strap between the engine and the body, I would use one of the bolts that attaches the inner fender supports to the firewall, they are close to the motor and right above the subframe.

I'd also pick up some properly sized star washers to put between the terminal and the body (and the block)
 
Discussion starter · #13 · (Edited)
Ok so here's the story, I ran a ground wire from the block down to the frame. The ground straps still over heated. I removed the ground strap and just left the one from the block to the frame. When I turn the key, I have something wrong since the wire covers by the passenger doors stick up about a 1/4 inch normally then when I turn the key, they clamp down. Also, the battery cables heat up.

The way I have my battery relocation set up is I ran the 2ga positive cable up just underneath the heater box and then have a bulk head connector to pass through the floor, then I have a 4ga cable from the other side of the bulk head to the starter.

Any Ideas?
 
#14 ·
ryry said:
When I turn the key, I have something wrong since the wire covers by the passenger doors stick up about a 1/4 inch normally then when I turn the key, they clamp down. Also, the battery cables heat up.
Click to expand...
Huh? Lots of current passing through the cables.

The way I have my battery relocation set up is I ran the 2ga positive cable up just underneath the heater box and then have a bulk head connector to pass through the floor, then I have a 4ga cable from the other side of the bulk head to the starter. Any Ideas?
Click to expand...
Your 2 AWG may be too small. I use 4/0 cable and I still have a 1.5 volt loss from the battery post to solenoid post.

Check the cable loss by making a jumper wire, alligator-to-alligator clamp is fine, clip one clamp to meter lead, clip the other meter lead to the other clamp, let the meter, if digital, self zero. It'll start at 0.4 then start to drop, after a minute or so, it should read 0.1 or 0.0.

When it does this, clip one clamp to solenoid post, the meter lead to battery positive post and crank. Meter will show cable loss from post to post. Do the same for the other cable, run from engine block to neg post.

One source of current loss is crimped connections. They should be soldered terminals, solder should be a shiny silver when cooled, not gunmetal (dull) gray depicting a cold solder joint. And no alum terminals. Tin-plated copper is better, 24K gold plated are the best, but with the price of gold, t/pl will be fine.

Another source of loss you have is the 4 AWG jumper. The cable from the trunk should be one piece up to solenoid post. Grommet the floorboard hole. Or make another jumper soldered terminals of the same wire gauge feeding the feedthru.

What is the charging voltage at the battery posts? With the longer cable runs, there will be less charging current and battery may not be fully charged. At rest, battery should measure 12.6 volts, 100% charged. Running, there may only be 13.5-13.8 volts rather than 14.0-14.5 volts. Depends upon charging system, ext reg alt 37A, will never get there. An internal reg alt may be a better idea.

Just some thoughts.
 
#15 ·
We seem to be having a reading problem.

The subframe on a camaro is RUBBER MOUNTED!!!

Your battery in the trunk is grounded to the BODY, you need to also ground your engine TO THE BODY!

As I said above, the best/easiest way to do this is to connect the BIG ground cable to one of the mounting bolts where the inner fender support attaches to the firewall, which is part of the BODY.
 
#16 ·
I don't know about all the grounding techniques discussed here except to say that you need a substatial connection between the block and the battery (-). When the engine cranks over, the starter motor pulls in excess of 100Amps. It's the path between the block and the battery that carry the most current. IMHO, using the frame /body for the 100Amp path is asking for trouble if you have other electrical accessories in the car like power amplifiers or a stereo.

Heat is what you get when current passes through a resistance. Getting warm is normal, but, heat also indicates a voltage drop (power loss). You'll never get the heat to go away completely, but whereever there is heat you're loosing voltage. If the drop is large enough you won't be able to crank the motor.

A typical starter motor needs at least 8-10 volts to spin the motor over successfully. What's more, the battery itself will drop voltage when loaded due to its internal resistance. As a result, your electrical system can't present more than about 1 volt drop to the overall circuit (power and ground) to keep things working like they should.
 
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