I have a 69. 350 Nothing special. Building it up for a daily driver (should be a lot more fun than my s-10). I would like to put in a late model 5- speed manual with overdrive (it's a long trip to work). Any suggestions/ recomendations on a trans that would bolt up to my bell housing and crossmember. The floor is not an issue.
DanBnis
The Tremec 5 speed is the way to go. make sure you use a safety bellhousing and while you are at it get the bigger flywheel (168 tooth) and a heavy duty cluch. For the crossmember use a th400, cut the mount off and re-weld it to the other side. The drive shaft will need to be shortened, but it makes more sense to get a stronger one made up with at least a 1330 series or 1350 u-joint. Fortes Parts connection has the stuff to do the swap but make sure you get their tubular th400 crossmember - if they don't have one in stock make your own as I described above. DO NOT use their steel cut out crossmember-it will flex.
Torker - just out of curiosity - how can you tell if the tranny crossmember is flexing? What happens when it does? And can you elaborate on the construction method of the crossmember you're recommending against?
Thanks
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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
Thanks
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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
That's a good story Rocky, but I'll let Torquer tell it.
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
Rocky,
The Forte's xmember is made out of flat steel stock. It is formed with a similar shape to a stock xmember. It is VERY heavy and at first glance seems like it should work.
See some of CarlC's prior posts on his experiences with his Tremec installation. He was able to flex the Forte's xmember after installation by grabbing onto the end of the tranny and pushing it up and down. He didn't like the amount of flex he could generate so he pulled the Forte xmember and installed a modified TH-400 as Torker described.
Also, there apparently is a problem with getting the mounting holes in the Forte's xmember to line up with the holes in the frame and tranny mount.
I haven't installed my Tremec yet, but did purchase the Forte designed xmember. Based on Carl's advice, I have already purchased a TH-400 xmember and will not be using the Forte part.
The Forte's xmember is made out of flat steel stock. It is formed with a similar shape to a stock xmember. It is VERY heavy and at first glance seems like it should work.
See some of CarlC's prior posts on his experiences with his Tremec installation. He was able to flex the Forte's xmember after installation by grabbing onto the end of the tranny and pushing it up and down. He didn't like the amount of flex he could generate so he pulled the Forte xmember and installed a modified TH-400 as Torker described.
Also, there apparently is a problem with getting the mounting holes in the Forte's xmember to line up with the holes in the frame and tranny mount.
I haven't installed my Tremec yet, but did purchase the Forte designed xmember. Based on Carl's advice, I have already purchased a TH-400 xmember and will not be using the Forte part.
Danny,
I put in the Tremec. I used my existing (small) flywheel, bellhousing, and a stock replacement (for 82-93 Camaro?) 26 spline, 10.5" clutch kit. It runs great. I also went with the Tremec 3550 vice the TKO. The 3550 is rated for 450lb-ft and the TKO for 500lb-ft, I think. It's really fun to drive. The internal rail shifter's really smooth. Some folks also like the Richmond (formerly Doug Nash) 5-speed, too. Fifth gear is not overdrive, though. It has a rod-type shifter, ideal gear spacing, and is based on a Doug Nash tranny designed for heavy-duty/racing use.
On the Forte's GM Tremec, I tried the plate steel Forte's X-member; not only did it flex, but the holes didn't line up. Mike Forte is going to fix it, but I think the TH400 is the way to go. Buy the tranny & yoke, mechanical speedo hookup, and backup light switch from Fortes. Since you don't mind cutting the floor pan a little, get the regular shifter. For the TH-400 Xmember, cut the mount off the back and reweld it in the same location on the front. I don't weld, so I got it done for $20. I had a driveshaft shop shorten and balance my driveshaft ($60 or $80). Do a search, there's a lot of good info on this swap and different opinions. Remember, my car is a convertible for cruising with occasional hot rodding, so I don't always spring for the race/heavy-duty gear. (OK, part of it is that I have four kids and can't afford all of it!) Figure out what you want to do and build towards it. Steve Laabs
I put in the Tremec. I used my existing (small) flywheel, bellhousing, and a stock replacement (for 82-93 Camaro?) 26 spline, 10.5" clutch kit. It runs great. I also went with the Tremec 3550 vice the TKO. The 3550 is rated for 450lb-ft and the TKO for 500lb-ft, I think. It's really fun to drive. The internal rail shifter's really smooth. Some folks also like the Richmond (formerly Doug Nash) 5-speed, too. Fifth gear is not overdrive, though. It has a rod-type shifter, ideal gear spacing, and is based on a Doug Nash tranny designed for heavy-duty/racing use.
On the Forte's GM Tremec, I tried the plate steel Forte's X-member; not only did it flex, but the holes didn't line up. Mike Forte is going to fix it, but I think the TH400 is the way to go. Buy the tranny & yoke, mechanical speedo hookup, and backup light switch from Fortes. Since you don't mind cutting the floor pan a little, get the regular shifter. For the TH-400 Xmember, cut the mount off the back and reweld it in the same location on the front. I don't weld, so I got it done for $20. I had a driveshaft shop shorten and balance my driveshaft ($60 or $80). Do a search, there's a lot of good info on this swap and different opinions. Remember, my car is a convertible for cruising with occasional hot rodding, so I don't always spring for the race/heavy-duty gear. (OK, part of it is that I have four kids and can't afford all of it!) Figure out what you want to do and build towards it. Steve Laabs
Hey, I am sure this is geat advise. Even modifying a crossmember is no big deal but...I am not familiar with the "Tremec", if costs anything like a Doug Nash it is out of my price range. Where can I get a price? I was hoping for some info on swapping in something used. Would an '82-83 5 speed work?
Thanks for the info on the crossmember!
Dan - sorry to sidetrack your post. I don't know about the kind of swap you're suggesting but I'm sure some others here do. Good luck!
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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
Dan - sorry to sidetrack your post. I don't know about the kind of swap you're suggesting but I'm sure some others here do. Good luck!
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Scott
'69 400SB, Richmond 5-speed; '99 HD Road King Classic
www.geocities.com/sdenning1
The 5 speeds in the 3rd gen F-bodies are weak. GM wouldnt even give you a 350 with a manual trans because of this, only the 305. If your just going to cruise, and never intend to get on it, then it might be worth the save in money, but you might bust it the first time you drive it hard. Although it may hold up, i wouldnt take the chance, it could get expensive.
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67 Camaro
383-SRP Pistons, Manley Rods, Cola Crank, Edelbrock Performer RPM package, Speed Demon 750 dp, MSD Ignition, TH350 Trans stock gears and convertor
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67 Camaro
383-SRP Pistons, Manley Rods, Cola Crank, Edelbrock Performer RPM package, Speed Demon 750 dp, MSD Ignition, TH350 Trans stock gears and convertor
The Richmond is $1800. plus you need a shifter for about $200 more.
You need a TH 400size yoke, and a crossmember like the turbo 400, for either trans. You can cut off the TH400 mount tab and weld it in the center of the tube to bolt to.
The Richmond is the same length as a Muncie, so you don't have to shorten the driveshaft. If you have a console you will have to make a new shifter spacer plate to move it forward, and offset the stick to make it work.
I've done two, one on a 67, one on a 69, both with console. It shifts like a Muncie.
If you have low gears get a Tremec, It's got an overdrive fifth gear. If you have 3.08 or higher gears, get a Richmond, It's 1 to 1 in fifth, 3.27 in first on both trannys, so the tremec has a wider spread between each gear, more rpm drop on shifts.
David
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Check my web page for suspension info:
David's Homepage
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer
You need a TH 400size yoke, and a crossmember like the turbo 400, for either trans. You can cut off the TH400 mount tab and weld it in the center of the tube to bolt to.
The Richmond is the same length as a Muncie, so you don't have to shorten the driveshaft. If you have a console you will have to make a new shifter spacer plate to move it forward, and offset the stick to make it work.
I've done two, one on a 67, one on a 69, both with console. It shifts like a Muncie.
If you have low gears get a Tremec, It's got an overdrive fifth gear. If you have 3.08 or higher gears, get a Richmond, It's 1 to 1 in fifth, 3.27 in first on both trannys, so the tremec has a wider spread between each gear, more rpm drop on shifts.
David
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Check my web page for suspension info:
David's Homepage
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer
Sorry so long to reply, but I couldn't find my pricelist. Found the info in an old post, but these prices were what Fortes quoted me last April:
Tremec 3550: $1675 (TKO was $1,975 at this time)
Conversion yoke $60
Speedo cable & driven gear: $can't remember, maybe $30
Use existing driveshaft, pay to shorten and balance- $60
Shipping $100
Clutch kit from Pep Boys (no nasty comments, please)-$120
TH400 Xmember-$50
Cut and weld-$20
Steve
Tremec 3550: $1675 (TKO was $1,975 at this time)
Conversion yoke $60
Speedo cable & driven gear: $can't remember, maybe $30
Use existing driveshaft, pay to shorten and balance- $60
Shipping $100
Clutch kit from Pep Boys (no nasty comments, please)-$120
TH400 Xmember-$50
Cut and weld-$20
Steve
Sorry we got so carried away with your money, Dan. I don't know if it would fit in a first gen's tranny tunnel, but I had a five speed manual w/ OD in a '90 C1500 I had. You might look at one of those and see if it would fit. I always figure if Chevy stuck it on a full-size pickup, it must be fairly tough. Just an idea. Steve Laabs
Not sure if you had your heart set on a manual tranny, but have you thought about a 200-R4 automatic?
There have been several recent articles in car mags about these trannies lately. Apparently they are about as strong as a TH-350 (were actually based on the 350 design) and are a lot easier and cheaper to get at a junk yard than the 700-R4. Many of the Buick GN guys run modified 200-R4s behind their 700 HP turbo motors.
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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt
See my website updated 4/5/00 at:
www.geocities.com/gheatly
[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 07-10-2000).]
There have been several recent articles in car mags about these trannies lately. Apparently they are about as strong as a TH-350 (were actually based on the 350 design) and are a lot easier and cheaper to get at a junk yard than the 700-R4. Many of the Buick GN guys run modified 200-R4s behind their 700 HP turbo motors.
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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt
See my website updated 4/5/00 at:
www.geocities.com/gheatly
[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 07-10-2000).]
If you want to save some money, you could look for a 93 T56 from a Camaro. If I remember correctly it's a direct bolt-in for a 82-92 5-speed Camaro. I think it's rated at 350lbs.
Or you could get a 94-97 T-56 they're rated at 450lbs and come with a .50 od for 6th. only you'd need a lot of 4thgen parts to use it.
Nice part about using a T-56 is they can be found for around $700 with only 30-40k on them.
Anyway I just wanted to voice my opinion on this subject. Not like I'm a God at 1stgens or anything.
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http://350.streetracing.org 89 Camaro RS - L03/T5
Or you could get a 94-97 T-56 they're rated at 450lbs and come with a .50 od for 6th. only you'd need a lot of 4thgen parts to use it.
Nice part about using a T-56 is they can be found for around $700 with only 30-40k on them.
Anyway I just wanted to voice my opinion on this subject. Not like I'm a God at 1stgens or anything.
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http://350.streetracing.org 89 Camaro RS - L03/T5
That's a good idea, but I think I looked at the T56 option when I was looking to swap in a late-model tranny and it seemed prohibititely difficult and expensive. I think mostly it was that you had to convert to a hydraulic clutch linkage setup, jury-rig the reverse lockout electrical wiring and backup lights, and do quite a bit more work to make the tranny fit in the tunnel and fabricate a Xmember that would hold it quite a bit further back. There is an aftermarket version that makes the swap easier, but then you're talking about a lot of money again. I'll try to look at the old writeups in CarCraft & CHP and see what I can find. Steve Laabs
Steve's right. Either a T56 or Tremec will run a minimum of $3,000 on most standard swaps. Exceptions are there, but for the masses get ready to lay down the greenbacks.
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
Wanted to relay my recent experience and see if anyone has any suggestions. Restoring 67 Camaro and wanted to convert from stock powerglide to a manual. After reading Super Chevy article on Tremic install in 68 Camaro I opted for the Tremec 3550. Retention of the console was a key factor.
Finally installed engine and transmission last weekend and ran into problems with the console. I'm confirming with Forte's that I got the forward shifter that moves it from 19.5" back from the bellhousing to 18.3". I'm pretty sure I do. With the console in the stock position, the shifter stub was very close to the aft edge of the console opening (no shifter plate)and is on centerline. Things get worse when I install the shifter plate. I can move the console back an inch or so to solve the fore/aft interference but the shifter still needs to be farther towards driver seat. Can't be done by spacers because shifter stub extends 1/4-1/2 inch above the shifter plate opening.
Has anyone actually installed a Tremec in a 67-69 Camaro and used the stock console and shifter plate? I'm thinking I'm going to have to make a custom shifter plate but then I'll lose the stock look which I really wanted to retain.
Finally installed engine and transmission last weekend and ran into problems with the console. I'm confirming with Forte's that I got the forward shifter that moves it from 19.5" back from the bellhousing to 18.3". I'm pretty sure I do. With the console in the stock position, the shifter stub was very close to the aft edge of the console opening (no shifter plate)and is on centerline. Things get worse when I install the shifter plate. I can move the console back an inch or so to solve the fore/aft interference but the shifter still needs to be farther towards driver seat. Can't be done by spacers because shifter stub extends 1/4-1/2 inch above the shifter plate opening.
Has anyone actually installed a Tremec in a 67-69 Camaro and used the stock console and shifter plate? I'm thinking I'm going to have to make a custom shifter plate but then I'll lose the stock look which I really wanted to retain.
I run the Forte's adjustable shifter, which is really just a different mounting plate that moves the shifer forward. It fits perfectly into a '68 console with a 4-speed plate. I placed the shifter handle on the LH side of the shifter and it came out in the middle of the plate.
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
Carl....Thanks. I'm glad to hear the Tremec worked well with a 68 console. I was just looking at Classic Industries and Rick's 1st Gen catalogs and trying to compare the size of the openings in the 68/69 shifter plates with the 67. Since you had no problem, I would suspect the 68/69 shifter plate opening is wider and extends further towards the passenger seat. Also, looking at the picture of the interior on your web site, the one with the auto, it looks to me that the 68 console is higher than the 67's which also helps. Could you put a picture of your console with the Tremec on your website??
My solution may be to just put a 68 console in my 67.
By the way. My 67 is red with a red interior also. You can never have enought red on a car in my opinion.
My solution may be to just put a 68 console in my 67.
By the way. My 67 is red with a red interior also. You can never have enought red on a car in my opinion.
Like a famous rock star once said, "Green ain't mean compared to red."
![Image]()
I'll try to borrow my neighbors digital camara and post ASAP.
Carl
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
I'll try to borrow my neighbors digital camara and post ASAP.
Carl
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
I started a web page on my car and posted some pictures of how the Tremec shifter fits, or should I say doesn't fit, with my 67 console and shift plate. The web site is www.clubmac-camaro.bigstep.com Not much there right now but use the Tremec/Console link on the left side of the page. There are three pictures; one showing the shifter coming thrugh the tunnel, one with the console installed minus the shifter plate, and one with the shifter plate. I've e-mailed these same pictures to Mike at Forte's.
Carl....would appreciate you taking a look. Looking forward to your picture of the 68 console.
Mark M.
Carl....would appreciate you taking a look. Looking forward to your picture of the 68 console.
Mark M.
I am also in the process of installing a tremec TKO from Forte with the forward located shifter. My car is a 69 Camaro SS/RS with a 396. I am disapointed with the cross member from Forte and going to purchase a Turbo 400 mount and modify it. Right now the motor and transmission are sitting in the subframe and it looks like Tremec it favors the the passenger side of the car about 1". When you(carlc& mem) modified your cross members did you notice this? I just trying to fit everything ahead of time so I have less headaches later. I don't have a website yet but if you are interested in any pictures you can e-mail me. I look forward to seeing more pictures on your wesites.(carl & Mem)Thanks
memcgraw and cmrib,
It does look too far back for your console. I just took a look at mine and in 2-3-R the shifter handle almost touches the shifter plate. There is excess room in front but the Tremec design may not allow the shifter to be placed any farther foward when mounted in the aft location.
Now this is pretty rough, but measuring from the top of the ashtray lip (closed) to the top-center of the shifter in neutral is 10 1/4".
As far as the side-to-side position, I centered the output shaft in the tunnel/between frame rails and welded the mounting tab to fit. I had to pull the trans over to get it in the center. If you are using the Forte's plate steel mount the holes may not be in the center and will screw things up. The top of my shifter is actually left of center and fits well in that direction.
The centerline of the trans is the same as the motor. The motor mounts could be slightly off or try loosening the motor mount bolts before installing the trans mount bolts.
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
It does look too far back for your console. I just took a look at mine and in 2-3-R the shifter handle almost touches the shifter plate. There is excess room in front but the Tremec design may not allow the shifter to be placed any farther foward when mounted in the aft location.
Now this is pretty rough, but measuring from the top of the ashtray lip (closed) to the top-center of the shifter in neutral is 10 1/4".
As far as the side-to-side position, I centered the output shaft in the tunnel/between frame rails and welded the mounting tab to fit. I had to pull the trans over to get it in the center. If you are using the Forte's plate steel mount the holes may not be in the center and will screw things up. The top of my shifter is actually left of center and fits well in that direction.
The centerline of the trans is the same as the motor. The motor mounts could be slightly off or try loosening the motor mount bolts before installing the trans mount bolts.
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Click here to see see my car and hear 5-speeds. http://www.geocities.com/casanoc
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