[Lifeboatdan]

I want to take my non-numbers matching (out of a '69 impala) 327 out of my '67 RS and rebuild it and add HPs. I was think about having a machine shop do the bottom end and me doing the top end. I was looking at Edelbrook's Performer Packages for the top since everthing is matched and it is one stop shop. I am restoring the entire car as you can see from some of my other posts so I am mechanically capable to do the top end with instructions.

My question is would you recommed this or another alternative, i.e. crate motor? (can't get 327 in a crate, can I?)
If this sounds OK, how my HP can you add to a 2 bolt main 327 without running into problems??
If it can handle HP then what bottom end parts to use. Crank, forged steel?? bearings, etc.
Also, anyone know of a good machine shop that does this type of bottom end work in the Orlando, FL area?

Thanks for help.

 

[Z15CAM]

As far as I know all small journal 327 Cranks & Rods are Forged.

2 or 4 Bolt block don't matter as the rotating assembly is relatively light. You can build a Large Journal 68/69 327 Forged Crank (Very Rare) in a 4 Bolt 010 Block. I do this simply to mount the OEM Vette Windage Tray.

I suggest you keep the Block (Bore it .030" - Ensure all lifter bores are good) & Crank (Polish it). Buy Eagle SIR 5.7" Cap Screw Small Journal Forged Rods & say Speed Pro L2166NF30 forged pistons to get the Static compression up between 10.5 to 11:1. Run a SFT Cam with Matching Springs to achieve between 7.8 to 8.2:1 DCR, ARP Studs, PolyLocks & Descent Roller Rockers such as Pro MAGS or Harland Sharp. Top the mill off with either a Holley 650 Dp (750 for Drag) over an Edelbrock RPM Intake. Keep the Quench between .035" to .044" by using the Steel .018" Head gasket or 0-Deck and run a Composite .038" Head Gasket.

Refit Heads with 2.02/1.6 Valves & Guide Plates (Unshroud around the Intake Valve) - Ensure the Guides are Good - You could have the Spring Pockets opened to 1.439" for better Valve Spring selection - I do prefer the 291 64cc Head Casting however the 69/70 Heads have the Alternator Bolt Boss and makes for a Very compact Pulley Belt Assembly.

You now have a Pump Gas 7000+rpm 400+Hp 333ci LT1 SBC.

If your shooting for over 425Hp & 8000rpm you will require some head porting and run Tall PolyLock with a Girdle or put out for Shaft Rockers.

You can buy aftermarket Windage Trays for a 2 Bolt Block that use Stud Bolts on the Mains.

What are Casting Numbers on Bock, Heads and Crank?

 

[Lifeboatdan]

I don't have it apart yet since I just pulled it Sat. So don't know the crank No.
I will get the Block and Head numbers tonight and post them.

So you think I can keep the block, heads and crank? no need to replace them to get the higher HP? The range you gave me of about 400HP would be great! I really would like to keep what I can but get the HP you stated. I just wanted to make sure the original parts will handle it.

The heads valve seats are not hardened for Unleaded gas. I thought I would have to replace them????

 

[Z15CAM]

You don't need to Replace the Seats with Hardened Inserts unless your using the Mill in a Boats or Tow Truck - Actually it's best to install the Larger Valves as there is more Meat to Install them at OEM Specs.

Heads are the Question for Performance as the 67 327 came in a redicilious number of Casting Combinations.

For-instance here's some Bock Castings: 3789817 3858174 3858180 3892657

Head Castings: 3798996 3814480 3814482 3817680 3817681 3836842 3884520* 3890462 3912311 3912313 3917290 3917293 3927185 3917291(Hi-Perf)

If the Original Engine was a 4 BBL you most likely have the 291 Castings with 1.94 Valve; however the 291 Castings where also used in 1.88 Valved 2 BBL's. Low Perf 2 BBL's generally used 1.74 Intake Valves... etc.

If the heads are not suitable your looking at After Market - Cost really are not that much more then machining 291's to Spec's.
I would not use Vortec's on a 327 - They like Hi-Compression, Large Valves with Moderate Runner Volume.

As I say the 67 327 came with many Combinations of Castings.

 

[Lifeboatdan]

Thanks Ron,
I will get the cast numbers and we will go from there.
BTW it is a 2 BBL 235 HP 327.

 

[Lifeboatdan]

Casting Number onthe block is 3932386.
No numbers on heads. Is it under the valve cover?

 

[Melrose RS]

Yes the casting number is in between a couple valve springs but you shouldn't worry to much about those heads because if they are original, I believe they are 1.72" intake valves. Even the 275 hp 327s had 1.94s so you will be in the market for some good heads for anything above 250hp.

 

[trmnatr]

I want to take my non-numbers matching (out of a '69 impala) 327 out of my '67 RS and rebuild it and add HPs. I was think about having a machine shop do the bottom end and me doing the top end. I was looking at Edelbrook's Performer Packages for the top since everthing is matched and it is one stop shop. I am restoring the entire car as you can see from some of my other posts so I am mechanically capable to do the top end with instructions.

My question is would you recommed this or another alternative, i.e. crate motor? (can't get 327 in a crate, can I?)
If this sounds OK, how my HP can you add to a 2 bolt main 327 without running into problems??
If it can handle HP then what bottom end parts to use. Crank, forged steel?? bearings, etc.
Also, anyone know of a good machine shop that does this type of bottom end work in the Orlando, FL area?

Thanks for help.

Go with a set of KB pistons, they make factory size compression heights. IC792 is the piston to use with the factory 5.7" rod, this piston weighs 518 grams which is not too bad for a 6500rpm engine, if you can use a longer rod you can save some weight and make some more power with a longer rod, and the piston with the shorter compression height to work with the longer rod. This piston, or the equal piston for the longer rod would be 9.89:1 compression with a 0 deck, 4.100" x .039" head gasket and 64cc heads.

284/290 @.004" tappet lift
228/234 @.020" tappet lift
139/144 @.200" tappet lift
.480"/.494" lift with 1.5's
106° lobe center

The cam above is an EXCELLENT Crane Saturday Night Special, will be choppy but will make great power to 6500rpm. I would use the 461/291 style head, depending on what you have now, if the budget is there do indeed add Manley Street Flo valves, screw in studs/guide plates and a good valve job where the shop will blend from the valve job to the bowl and from the valve job into the chamber

Use a descent rocker arm, such as Crane Classic or Harland Sharp and you will have an excellent engine that will exceed the HP your looking at (~400hp)

If your going to get heads, AFR's Street head is hard to beat based off 2 race heads I have from AFR

Also, if the budget is there for a 6" small journal rod (Assuming you do indeed have a SJ 327) this will allow a stronger bottom end, and a lighter piston, and at higher RPM's everything gets along better with less stress, its not a MUST but would be a good thing

 

[Lifeboatdan]

Thanks Guys, this is exactly the info I need.

 

[mbrekke]

What's your budget Dan? You can get to the 350-400 hp range pretty cheaply. If you have a large budget you might as well go with a bigger crate engine complete with warrenty.

Auto or manual transmission? Power brakes? Rearend gears?

Mark

 

[onovakind67]

Also, if the budget is there for a 6" small journal rod (Assuming you do indeed have a SJ 327) this will allow a stronger bottom end, and a lighter piston, and at higher RPM's everything gets along better with less stress, its not a MUST but would be a good thing

We used a 6.125" rod with a piston designed for a 350cid/6" rod. These pistons are light and easy to come by.

 

[trmnatr]

We used a 6.125" rod with a piston designed for a 350cid/6" rod. These pistons are light and easy to come by.

Very true, and also what I do but without a more expensive rod, I don't know if he can do it on a budget here

Most budget rods like the Scat I Beam's and others, are all for large journal engines.

I actually have one short block that is .500" dome, with a 1.260" compression height that was 422grams before lightening

I have one set that is for use with a 6.250" rod, they are 329grams, I agree 100% with your thought other than it sounds like the HP he is looking for is mild, so a $400 piston set with a 1.678" compression height will utilize his crank and rods, so that is cheaper than pistons and rods, otherwise I agree 1000%

My custom pistons are OVER KILL, they were a full billet/forged piston, the compression height is 1.375" with a deck minimum thickness of .510" AFTER lightening, at the dome the minimum thickness of the deck and dome combined is .910", the valve pockets are .300"+ deep with .200"+ material under them, the intake valve pocket to ring groove is over .100"+

I know they are a little over kill, but I wanted something that was VERY strong, yet under 460grams, they are right around 450grams which is fine at 8500rpm with a good rod, Using GRP 6" rods at 478grams with well over 1.5" thread engagement of the rod bolts (349 big end weight)

The pins I kept heavy, now too heavy though, .150" wall thickness at 119grams

 

[hhott71]

Your Edelbrock idea is fine and the stock bottom end is more than up to the task.
Your weakest link is the rod bolts. You don't need 4 bolt mains on a mildly hopped up engine.
A 650 DP or VS carb is more than sufficient, ifyou want a 750, make it a Q-Jet.

 

[Lifeboatdan]

Thanks for the dumbed down input. As I said before I am mechanically inclined but do not have any experience with engine parts or matching anything up to get higher HP. For a guy like me the Edelbrock package is perfect.

If I take it in to a shop to do the lower end and want them to address the rod bolts you mentioned what should I asked for? is there anything else I should be looking at, better pistons, rings. As you can see I do not know enough to tell them what to do and keep within a moderate budget.

I would like to do the engine for $4K if possible. Edelbrock 2099 package around $2500 w/carburator. What can I get from a shop for $1500 to do the lower end?

 

[67 Plum]

Casting Number onthe block is 3932386.

Thats not a small journal 327. Thats a 69 block used for 350s not saying they didnt use them for 327s but all of them I have seen were 350s.Get the casting number from the crankshaft. Build a 383 if you want more power.

 

[rsb0719]

Thats not a small journal 327. Thats a 69 block used for 350s not saying they didnt use them for 327s but all of them I have seen were 350s.Get the casting number from the crankshaft. Build a 383 if you want more power.

I agree, it is not a small journal 327. I have the same block and it is a large jounal 327 in a 69 Camaro, all original. It was used in 327's and 350 blocks.

 

[Lifeboatdan]

I assume this has a two piece rear main seal? is that correct? If so am I better off with new block with a 1 piece seal to prevent leaks? or do the replacement 2 piece seal now solves that problem?

 

[Melrose RS]

I assume this has a two piece rear main seal? is that correct? If so am I better off with new block with a 1 piece seal to prevent leaks? or do the replacement 2 piece seal now solves that problem?

Yes, that is a two piece. Dont worry about that- it will be just fine with a new seal. I recommend a one-piece oil pan gasket if it's in your budget.


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