Team Camaro Tech banner

68 Z28 Convertible???

1 reading
9.1K views 39 replies 19 participants last post by  wagonman  
#1 ·
I was at the Pleasanton, CA Good-Guys meet yesterday. One of the cars on display was a 68 Z28 convertible that was delivered in Colorado. The paperwork on the car looked original and very extensive. It indicated that the car also had the JL-8 service option and the cross-ram in the trunk. Numbers were matching. The car was blue with blue custom interior with fold down rear seat.Is it possible that this is a real Z28 convertible?
 
#6 ·
That is Wagonman's car, it's a tribute car based on the one and only '68 Z/28 ragtop ever built. The doc's are all made up. Sounds like you didn't get to speak to him, he has a great found in a barn story if he can keep a straight face when he tells it...
 
#8 ·
If you talk to the owner his intentions are to raise eyebrows and to let folks know what he did is happening out there every day. He's very open about his clone and has shared his car with guys like Al Menard who signed his glove box for him.

I agree there is a possibility down the road of some underhanded dealings but also believe not as long as the car is in the hands of the current owner. It takes a match to light a camp fire and that same match can burn down the whole forest if you're not careful.

If by saying "it seems to be cheapened" you mean it gives you an uneasy or scarry feeling when you think about it, Wagonman made his point... In todays high dollar hobby you can't just see paper and be assured. If a Nova guy like Wagonman can venture into the Camaro side and find all the right parts and a guy to make his paper on his first project, anyone with the same resources can do the same... Just some food for thought!
 
#9 ·
Good point, but wouldn't have been better to put a headline on his paperwork sign that says something about how a buyer should beware?? All I saw was very convincing paperwork. If this is his purpose, then he should say so.
 
#10 ·
I can just picture wagonman , reading this thread. He's got a great big cheshire cat grin on his face. And he's thinking .... "This makes it worth all the effort" ......I've got them thinking. Maybe I should check a little closer before I put down my hard earned cash on that oh so perfect car I just have to have! :D John, To put a header like that would defeat the purpose. It only has impact if you totally take the bait ,or at least gets the old cogs in the brain turning. I don't know wagonman personally,but I think he's doing our hobby a service . By bringing this practice to our attention.
 
#11 ·
Pretty sad, you do know that at the 2004 Kruse Auburn Fall auction where it appeared a briefcase containing all the paperwork and documentation for the Pete Estes car was stolen, right? Never did hear if any/all of it was ever recovered.
So here is a car the SHOULDN'T have documentation and does, and one that SHOULD HAVE and doesn't any longer.
I'm sorry I don't really see the guys point (more accurately the WAY he made his point), by now most everyone KNOWS that every aspect of this hobby can be faked, including paperwork. I really didn't need for someone to actually do it for me to believe it. To me it seems that it sure could cause some confusion 20 or 30 years from now.

Mike L.
 
#14 ·
Well even the owner of the real one thinks this one is cool. I don't like the fact that in the wrong hands a match can start a forest fire but I don't think you can take everyones matches away... If there is a car with fake paper out there wouldn't you like to know about it. He's making it known, folks have taken pictures of it, he won't tell you where to get your own paper. I guess he should have said nothing so 20 years from now there is no record of the true status.

And when was the last time you saw anyone with a high dollar car put real docs on display where anyone can walk away with them and be lost in a crowd.

I'm really more middle of the road in this than it sounds. If the threads like these get lots of coverage on the net maybe a few mags will pick it up and run with the "Buyer Beware" theme making it even better known the car is a clone and there are lots of them out there that are not known outside of the guys that are profiting from them...

Like what he did or not you're helping by voicing your opinion pro or con and that's a good thing...
 
#12 ·
I can't help think that this is sort of childish. Giggle, giggle, I can fool the dad's out on a Sunday afternoon with their young sons. The message does not come across. If he has a point to make, then say it. All he has proven is that with enough effort anything can be duplicated. He missed out on a great opportunity to educate the public and that's sad.....
 
#13 ·
I can see where you might be coming from with the collection you have...

Thanks for all the advice, yes there is an emotional attachment to this one as it was my driver for many years. I'll spend what it takes to do the job right.

I have to admit that we have an attachment to all of the cars bekow in our collection. All are professionally restore or getting there.

57 Chevy Bel Air 2-door HT with PS, PB, PW, PS, & Factory Air
57 Chevy Bel Air 4-door, all original
63 Studebaker Avanti (Supercharged)
(2) 65 Corvette roadsters with matching numbers
68 Camaro Convertible (SS 396, 4-sp, A/C)
69 Pace Car (350, PT, PW, Tilt)
69 Pace Car (396, A/C)
69 SS/RS (Yellow/ yellow houndstooth, A/C, LA car)
(2) 69 Z28's – one JL-8
69 Convertible (6 cyl)
69 Convertible (Hugger Orange, originally green custom interior, PW, 396)
69 SS coupe
(3) 69 Standard coupes
70 Z28
70 SS
70 Chevelle Coupe (LS-6)
73 Trans Am SD-455
It could be terrifying to think one or more of your nice cars isn't what they are believed by you to be... The facts are he did it, he talked about doing it here and shared the build the whole way. It's a scarry thing but it isn't a secret in this case.
 
#15 ·
Don't worry, I'm not concerned about my cars. We're had over 50 67-69 Camaros and these have been in the family many years. I loved the car and I understand the idea. I just thought it would be a good idea to make the presentation more open to make sure the message is received by all.

No doubt the idea worked on me which is why I started this thread......
 
#17 ·
Wagonman isn't trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. The build of his clone 68 Z/28 vert is well documented on this website. Wagonman posted pics of the build. Most of us here know there is only 1 real 68 Z/28 vert. I doubt if Wagonman ever sells the car, he will advertise the car as a "real" 68 Z/28 vert w/paperwork. If he did,and, the new owner discovered this fact, Wagonman wouldn't have a leg to stand on with all the documentation on this website.
 
#18 ·
I'm not the least bit concerned about it being passed off as a real car. I really enjoyed seeing it along with the others that were along side it. It is a beautiful job and he deserves to be proud of it.

Anyone putting a 69 Z/28 convertible together?
 
#19 ·
shhhh!!! we're still working on the story about how the only real one was sent to an undisclosed location by an undisclosed trucking firm. It was recently disclosed that it never made it to the undisclosed location. A friend of the brother of a guy that drove transporter for the undisclosed trucking company recently came forward to disclose that a certain white ragtop may indeed be the one off ragtop nobody knew about... :D
 
#21 ·
Well I've been following both threads from the begining. It is my personal opinion that Wagonmans car will show up as a legit car at some time. I'm just calling this like I see it without the sugar coating. It's a super nice car but I call BS on the fake paperwork being an "educational tool"! It's a selling tool for a later date. Is it any of my biz? absolutely not,this is just my 02. I've got my flame suit on so go ahead.:beers: :beers:
 
#22 ·
No flames Ken just a question, how do you rationalize the open presentation of the car as a clone and the open admittance the paper is made up?

I can't for the life of me come up with some kind of reverse psychology ploy to make all this benefit a if he's intending to sell. Reality by being open he just killed his chances of truly getting away with passing the car off as real. Anyone he sells it to is bound to pack their prize onto a trailer and drag it to someplace where someone has read about the car here and Wagonman is going to find himself in a whole lot of trouble...
 
#25 ·
Slow down Mike - We all know the real doc's were in a brief case, at least that is the story. I was refering to Wagonmans doc's that he displays every time he shows the car! You are really coming off angry over this, it's not an argument - just conversation... For that fact, ya I think you'll remember for a while...

I don't disagree there is potential for his car down the road to become like so many others, I do believe that the way it's starting life it's getting great coverage here, the supercar site where the high dollar collectors hang out and there are possibilities of some magazine coverage for the car.

Every car show and most cruise-in's I've been to there is always a car or three with fake doc's displayed with them. I watch folks pull in and apply their window stickers and set out their scrap books just like Wagonman does. He just happened to clone a one off, everyone else is cloning SS and Z/28's and Yenkos... The fact that the one off car is so well known in collector and Camaro lover circles is all working in favor of this car not being passed off as something it isn't.

There are thousands of cars out there that nobody talks about from SS badged plane janes being passed off to new comers to the hobby to higher dollar cars in the collector world.

I hope all the flack that you and others are giving Wagonman's car is really just pent up frustration over the whole mess and not dirrected directly at him... I've met the man and several of his friends and he has honorable intentions imo.
 
#26 ·
There was only one of these cars made.....and it's known by nearly every camaro enthusiast on the planet....

If you have a million dollars to piss away and you don't know this fact or consult with someone prior to purchasing...than you really do have more money than brains..

Dan
 
#31 ·
Wagonman doesn't know it but his buddys and I have been putting mileage on the car all week while he is on vacation... I hope Joe or Mike remembered to tire black the tires and hook the speedo cable back up... I took care of the rubber behind the rear tires already and the beer stains on in the carpet don't even show! :D ;)
 
#33 ·
ALOHA

no-can-do!!

i took the car to hawaii with me :)

hope you guys had a good time at the BTB!!!
 
#32 ·
In 20-30 years,fake paperwork will be so technically accurate, that even real paperwork will not be trusted. The unrestored originals will be bringing the top dollar, and yes, folks will be "restoring" previous frame off restorations to their unrestored state.

Ever watch Antiques Roadshow? "If this 17th century table had not been refinished, it would be worth $20,000. Since it has, it's only worth $10,000" Or, "I hate to be the one to tell you this, but this table has been refinished to look old. I'm sorry you spent $20,000 on this, it's only worth $2000 as a decorative piece."