[BPOS]

Crank but not start? If so, I'd be inclined to suspect the old module. Sounds like it fails when it heats up. I think I see a new Pertronix module and a 12ga wire to the IGN spade on the fuse block in your future.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

Yep, it cranks but does not start. It's never failed after heating up before.

Not sure why I would need to go to the IGN spade on the fuse block. I ran the Pertronix (recommended) Relay Kit which pulls 12V from the starter. Also, if the module died, I'm wondering why that would suddenly happen after adding the relay kit.

 

[BPOS]

Yeah I suppose if the relay is already in place then use it. Thinking about this a little more - and it has already been mentioned - is the ignition switch. When you get the thing to point that it won't start, turn the key to "run" and measure the voltage at the wire that is used to trigger the relay and see what you get. A failing ign switch can go bad intermittently. Whether you replaced it or not it could be faulty. I have had good luck with NAPAs Echlin elec products - wouldn't trust an Autozone or O'Reilly's elec part as far as I could throw it.

Check that the connector on the back of the ign switch is securely attached.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

I checked the voltage at the original resistor wire and it reads 12.2V. This was done by disconnecting the relay kit all together.

I'm going to hook the Relay kit back up and test what I'm getting at the coil in the "run" position.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

Hooked the relay back up...put the car in "RUN" and i'm getting 11.6V at the coil POS side.

 

[69-Pace]

Man that's a major bummer. Nothing sadder then a car on a flatbed going home. Tough to pinpoint these issues that's why I never venture too far from factory OEM designed system with aftermarket upgrades.

So back to basics. You need Air, Fuel and Spark. When she dies, and you have crank no start did you check that you have spark at the plug? Check for too much fuel - leaking bowl or flooding condition - has spark and if you hold pedal to floor she starts...or too little weak float or failing fuel pump, add fuel to the bowl from the vent she starts right up?

 

[MMMM_ERT]

Man that's a major bummer. Nothing sadder then a car on a flatbed going home. Tough to pinpoint these issues that's why I never venture too far from factory OEM designed system with aftermarket upgrades.

So back to basics. You need Air, Fuel and Spark. When she dies, and you have crank no start did you check that you have spark at the plug? Check for too much fuel - leaking bowl or flooding condition - has spark and if you hold pedal to floor she starts...or too little weak float or failing fuel pump, add fuel to the bowl from the vent she starts right up?

Well, it is the factory distributor with only the Pertronix module (and now relay)...that's not too far off OEM.

Whats best way (and safest) to check for spark when you're by yourself?

I never had to hold the pedal to the floor to get it to start. I pump it 3 times when it's cold and she starts up and idles until the idle warms up and you hit the pedal to release the idle. If it's warm...it starts right up without any pedal.

Again...this seemed like ignition related when it happened. I felt a hiccup and then it ran for about 5 more seconds normal...then it lost power.

 

[69-Pace]

No I don't mean starting in general in general, only when she dies, and you have crank but no start, if you hold pedal to the floor and hold it there until it starts,. if she does start then you had a flooded engine. Bowl is leaking and flooding the engine.

Testing for spark can be done by yourself using a remote starter button by pulling the spark wire off the plug and then insert a nail head into the boot. Place the end of the nail close enough to a grounding point such as the frame or block - any place you can see it while cranking with remote starter. Close enough for any spark to jump the gap from the nail to the block.

If you are alone with no remote starter button set your video camera close enough to see the spark jump but not close enough to be the closest grounding point for the spark.

 

[NH69Z28RS]

I've read about Pertronix modules failing after having been run with insufficient power. Not sure of that is your situation or not.

What I do find interesting is that you have 12.2 volts on the resistor wire which is higher than I would think it would be (was the wire connected to anything or just hanging free when you measured that voltage? ), but only 11.6 volts from the relay power wire to the coil which is lower than it should be (you want full electrical system voltage to the coil and Pertronix module).

What is the voltage at your battery? Whatever it is, ideally you want that or as close to it as possible at the coil and for the Pertronix module.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

I've read about Pertronix modules failing after having been run with insufficient power. Not sure of that is your situation or not.

What I do find interesting is that you have 12.2 volts on the resistor wire which is higher than I would think it would be (was the wire connected to anything or just hanging free when you measured that voltage? ), but only 11.6 volts from the relay power wire to the coil which is lower than it should be (you want full electrical system voltage to the coil and Pertronix module).

What is the voltage at your battery? Whatever it is, ideally you want that or as close to it as possible at the coil and for the Pertronix module.

I tested the resistor wire hanging free from the original harness (meaning disconnected). That was 12.2V

I tested at the battery across the terminals and I'm at 12.6V

I too thought the 11.6V at the coil thru the relay was strange. This was measured with everything wired properly to the coil.

Everything is wired using the Pertronix Relay Kit wiring...there are only the two factory wires. The resistor wire...and then the yellow wire which is still tied directly to the coil POS.

Seems like if was going to fail without enough power, it would have happened a long time ago when it would cut out (original issue) after turning lights and accessories.

I swear...after this, I think I'm just going to go back to points and to hell with the electronic stuff.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

I also just checked the 12V supply wire at the relay plug (relay removed) and it reads 12.6V.

How can I test the relay itself?

 

[NH69Z28RS]

Is it the 12 volt relay trigger voltage you tested that was 12.6 or the 12 volt supply that the relay passes on to the coil and module?

I would remove the relay supply wire from the + of the coil and measure that way, if you have 12.6 when measured that way with no load, it means the current draw of the coil and module is greater than the circuit can supply while maintaining voltage. A small loss is normal but you want the loss to be as minimal as possible.

I have my 12 volt supply for the coil and module run via a #12 or #10 dedicated wire (I can't remember for sure which right now) from the battery, direct to the relay and then from the relay to the coil and ignition module. Nothing else uses power from that circuit, it's dedicated to just the ignition.

I know you are frustrated but I've had no issues at all with my Ignitor III module and coil and have about 3k miles on it. They do work just fine if/when they are installed properly and are receiving the proper power.

One other thing is to make sure you have a separate good ground wire inside the distributor running from the breaker plate to the distributor housing, this is as important as having a good supply of electrical system voltage. Don't count on the breaker plate to be grounded on it's own, use a dedicated ground jumper to remove any/all possibility of the ground to the module having any resistance.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

It was the 12V supply from the starter which read at 12.6V at the relay socket (relay removed). I have not checked the wire that the relay passes on to the coil disconnected yet. I will try that and report on it.

I do not know if there is a GND wire inside the distributor...I didn't see anything about that in the instructions from Pertronix. Though, I did not install the Ignitor...as I mentioned before, the module was professionally installed when I had the car dyno tuned a few years back.

I can't imagine Pertronix would sell a relay kit with wire that can't carry the load.

Thanks for the tips...I will report pack on the disconnected wire after the relay which is the orange wire, per the instructions.

Here is the wiring colors:

Red wire is 12V supply,
Orange wire ties to Pos of coil. (after Relay)
Purple wire connects to OEM resistor wire.
Black wire is GND'ed.

 

[NH69Z28RS]

I don't have the Pertronix relay kit installed on mine as I built my own so that is why I'm asking for these details. The 12V supply from the starter you are using is from the large battery cable that has power at all times at the solenoid?

Yes it would be worth knowing IF there is a voltage difference in the (orange wire I believe from what you wrote) at the coil point but disconnected from the coil with no load.

I'll pull out my original Ignitor III installation instructions but I'm pretty sure they indicate a separate ground wire in the distributor to the breaker plate must be used. I'm not sure if that ground wire was part of every distributor when it was manufactured or if it was added but I'm pretty sure the instructions mention it must be there and be in good condition. Just because it was "Professionally tuned" doesn't mean "The Professional" got everything right, just gotta double check everything is all I'm saying...

It was the 12V supply from the starter which read at 12.6V at the relay socket (relay removed). I have not checked the wire that the relay passes on to the coil disconnected yet. I will try that and report on it.

I do not know if there is a GND wire inside the distributor...I didn't see anything about that in the instructions from Pertronix. Though, I did not install the Ignitor...as I mentioned before, the module was professionally installed when I had the car dyno tuned a few years back.

I can't imagine Pertronix would sell a relay kit with wire that can't carry the load.

Thanks for the tips...I will report pack on the disconnected wire after the relay which is the orange wire, per the instructions.

Here is the wiring colors:

Red wire is 12V supply,
Orange wire ties to Pos of coil. (after Relay)
Purple wire connects to OEM resistor wire.
Black wire is GND'ed.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

Sorry for the delay.

Yes, the 12V supply from the starter is picked up where the battery cable connects to the starter and is live all the time. 12.6V at battery, 12.6V at the relay socket (relay removed)

So, the reading after the relay on the orange wire is 12.3V... a .3V drop thru the relay.

Also, the yellow factory wire shows no voltage in the "run" position...and 10.2V when cranking.

...and again, with everything hooked up properly...I'm getting 11.6 at the coil POS.

Yes...I agree..."Professional installed" doesn't always mean everything is right. Though, these guys are a very good and reputable shop.

 

[NH69Z28RS]

The one outstanding question is if there is a ground wire inside the distributor between the breaker plate and the distributor housing?

 

[MMMM_ERT]

The one outstanding question is if there is a ground wire inside the distributor between the breaker plate and the distributor housing?

I popped the dist cap and there is a black GND wire from the base plate going somewhere that I cannot see. I see the other two wires going to the Ignitor module too. The GND wire appears in good condition (where I can see) and is securely attached to the base plate. I spose I'd have to pull a few more things before I could tell if it's connected to the housing. Thats where things get hairy for me. I'm no good with pulling (or reinstalling) distributors.

 

[Everett#2390]

So, the reading after the relay on the orange wire is 12.3V... a .3V drop thru the relay.
Also, the yellow factory wire shows no voltage in the "run" position...and 10.2V when cranking.

Hook the yellow wire from coil + to the new relay coil. This rewire will close the relay during START.

A better voltage measurement is made during the current/power draw - function working, as in garden hose nozzle open.
You stated 0.3 volts loss across the relay contacts, but this is with no load, no current going through the junction as in static condition, as in garden hose nozzle closed.
Take the same measurement with the function activated and I would wager the voltage drop across the contacts would be higher.
As current goes through a junction, the resistance heats up, voltage read across the contacts goes higher, meaning the power lost is going up as heat, 100% in, 70% out, 30% heat.

Petronix owners, if you measure across the coil terminals during cranking, would there be a DC pulse showing?
Not worried about the value, just the action - up, down, up, down, etc., during the cranking?
If no action, then module is dead, or as suggested, ground wire burnt open due to current demand.

 

[MMMM_ERT]

Hook the yellow wire from coil + to the new relay coil. This rewire will close the relay during START.

A better voltage measurement is made during the current/power draw - function working, as in garden hose nozzle open.
You stated 0.3 volts loss across the relay contacts, but this is with no load, no current going through the junction as in static condition, as in garden hose nozzle closed.
Take the same measurement with the function activated and I would wager the voltage drop across the contacts would be higher.
As current goes through a junction, the resistance heats up, voltage read across the contacts goes higher, meaning the power lost is going up as heat, 100% in, 70% out, 30% heat.

Petronix owners, if you measure across the coil terminals during cranking, would there be a DC pulse showing?
Not worried about the value, just the action - up, down, up, down, etc., during the cranking?
If no action, then module is dead, or as suggested, ground wire burnt open due to current demand.

Pardon my ignorance... hook the yellow wire to which wire of the relay circuit?

Here are the wiring colors:

Red wire is 12V supply,
Orange wire ties to Pos of coil. (after Relay)
Purple wire connects to OEM resistor wire.
Black wire is GND'ed.

...and I don't understand "closing the relay" at start. Also, are you saying this is how it should be wired permanently?

As for the "garden hose" scenario...I did test with key in the "run" position thru the relay...but with the orange wire disconnected from the coil. That's where I got my 12.3V reading. Wouldn't that be "function activated"?

 

[MMMM_ERT]

I'm getting 9.8V on the coil pos with my volt meter while cranking the engine.

Pertronix suggested pulling the tach wire from the coil negative (I assume this is the brown wire according to my manual). THey said it's rare, but sometimes tachs go bad and can cause this issue.