Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I would haul that car right back up there, and through some very choice words, give him the chance to fix what he did... then take it up to the next higher level. Im mad at them for you, and disgusted, but I can tell you this.. Even if you arent the least bit "bodyman" inclined your work would be better than paying somebody. There are all kinds of options out there for you to learn how to do those types of skills. Classes, books, skilled bodymen... If you wouold have taken that money you spent on the body and spent it on yourself to learn how to do that type of work, a lot of that could have been avoided. Thats what I did.. Just got out there and did! Hope this helps and hope it gets resolved...

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Where are you located
How can anyone answer your question when we don't have a clue what juristriction you live in :sad:

How long has it been
There's a statute running anginst it that affects what you can recover and do ...

How much will it cost to fix and get back to the point you agreed it was to be in
You'll need an estimate for the work required to get it to that point - again ...
No one can give you leagal recovery information without knowing 'what' you're trying to recover

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I had a real issue with a body shop locally as well. After 5 weeks in the shop I got the car back with runs in the paint and poor workmanship...and paint that did not match the rest of the car. The shop in question states a satisfaction guaranteed policy so without drama I spoke to the owner about the quality of the work and asked him what he would do if it was his car? He agreed that he would take it back to the shop and then agreed to bring the car back in for repaint/repair. This actually happened 3 more times until they got it right. I will never go there again, but I finally did get the quality of repair that I expected the first time.

The moral of the story is talk to the body shop owner in a non threating manner and discuss with him your dis-satisfaction and ask him what he would do if it was his car? Maybe you will get an agreement that the car needs to come back in for more work. You dont know what he will do until you ask.
Maybe he wants to protect the shops reputation...?

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I'm in NJ...shop is in PA. Already spoke with the local court there and small claims limit there is 12k. He had the car over a year. It was brought back to my house less than a year ago where it has since sat in my garage.

It's at another shop now. I'm going to have him give me a written estimate to fix what the other guy screwed up. There were also things he didn't do (quarters) that should have been done. I went there for body work as well as guidance. He told me there was nothing wrong with the existing skins that were put on it so I left them....but there was...a lot. So I didn't replace them...which now I'm having done.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Let me guess...you have nothing in writing as to what work was to be done....you rarely or never went to see the progress as the work was being done and you paid them in full??....am I pretty close?

If so, you're screwed....not trying to be a jerk but I have heard this same story a million times....There's a lot of shady body shops out there and as a consumer you have to do your due diligence.....

Dan

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Let me guess...you have nothing in writing as to what work was to be done....you rarely or never went to see the progress as the work was being done and you paid them in full??....am I pretty close?

If so, you're screwed....not trying to be a jerk but I have heard this same story a million times....There's a lot of shady body shops out there and as a consumer you have to do your due diligence.....

Dan

http://j-dogs.com/Camaro/

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Jason - sorry to hear you are facing this setback. What do you have in writing from the shop that worked on your car? Were you on a budget? I looked at all your photos and your car was in rough shape to start with. http://j-dogs.com/Camaro/

A small claims judge will beat both of you up to get you to settle before bringing the case in front of the judge. Then will base a decision on documentation and if the car was improved on by the work performed. Keep in mind one professional can say a new quarter is needed and another can recomend a patch panel. Who's to say one is right or wrong?

Yes bodyshops have been taken to court and yes they can loose the case but you need to have a well documented case because the proof is on you.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I found the original list of things to be done when I dropped it off, obviously it grew:

Sheetmetal as needed
customer to supple:
roof panel
side gutters
panel behind windows
2 fenders
metal
has floor pans, rad core support, front end bolt kit,
shop labor rate @ 75/hr includes materials
strip rear body panel
install
est 60-80hrs

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I found the original list of things to be done when I dropped it off, obviously it grew:
Sheetmetal as needed customer to supply: roof panel, side gutters, panel behind windows, 2 fenders, metal(?) has floor pans, rad core support, front end bolt kit,
shop labor rate @ 75/hr includes materials strip rear body panel install
est 60-80hrs

How much of this work did they actually do?
You'll need to compare the 'quote' with actual item(s)/work recieved and paid for for the court to rule on a settlement.
You should estimate the still needed work vs. what he didn't complete and the new shops estimates for that work - the court will most likely rule in your favor for the difference, if you can prove they didn't complete what they billed you for.

Dereck gives some excellent information in documenting and substantiating you claim for loss.
Having hard documents and facts for the court to decide upon will be the most important step in getting money from anyone.
You can use this link as a resonable (the court will like this type of research and documentation vs. "they said" it should/would/might cost ...) guide for time and cost to complete additional work - http://www.theinstallationcenter.com/prices.html

Taking in pictures of the 'Before' and the 'After' pictures you've posted probably won't be enough to convince any court :noway:
Unless ... the Judge is a classic car nut ...
They're gonna see pictures of a 'rusty piece of junk' 'Before' and a sorta less 'rusty piece of junk with lots of new parts' 'After' and not see where you didn't get you're moneys worth - just sayin' as I've seen this happen lots of time before ...

Set your sights on trying to recover the funds to complete your project and leave 'punative' recovery to the court if they see enough cause for it.
Going in trying to 'make the guy pay' for your lost time and any perceived damage is a lost cause in most cases, and leaves the court to question all your motives and demands - in JMHO's of course

Once you've decided how much you can prove you're actually out of pocket, you can decide if it's better to file in a 'Small Claims' or secure counsel to represent you.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Jason,

I had to sue the shop my car was at in North Carolina. I pulled my car from the shop prior to completion and took him to small claims court. DOCUMENTATION is the key. I had everything laid out for the judge/magistrate including contract, emails, photos, and invoices. I walked in there with a box of paper all sorted and laid it out on the table in front of me. He had nothing but a folder with about 2 pieces of paper in it. Needless to say I was awarded a judgement against the business. I did not get the full amount I sued for but that was because the magistrate only valued my fully restored deluxe front bucket seats and fully restored fold down rear seat at $600!!!! Don't forget just because you win the judgement does not mean they have to pay it. I will just be an open judgement against the business, goes on their credit report for 10 years unless they satisfy the judgement within that time. Make sure you do research on the business prior to completing the court paperwork to find out the legal name of the business. They can change the name of the bodyshop but usually do not change the name of the parent company/corporation. I am going to PM you with some other info/advise.

Derek

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

I don't know the whole story but I'm going to go against popular opinion & play the part of the shop owner just for the sake of argument. You had a car that judging by the pictures really needed full quarters, new door skins, etc but you were on a tight budget. So you asked the shop to keep it reasonable & "patch" some of the rust instead of replacing the bad metal with new stuff. Then you either weren't ready to spring for the paint job or didn't have the funds so you had them give it back to you in primer. You then let it sit in primer for a year. Alot of primer will allow moisture to pass through and the previously patched metal will rust from the inside out especially after sitting for a long period of time. Not saying that's the case here and the first thing I said was that I don't knw all the facts but this thread brought back memories of a sign I had in my shop many years ago. I did mechanical restorations & racecar fabrication, not body work. The sign basically said "You can have it fast, you can have it cheap, or you can have it done right" Pick ONE.. Please understand I'm not taking sides since I wasn't there for the initial conversations about what you wanted done & what you had to spend. Simply offering a differing opinion since many times the shop owners get run through the wringer when they were only doing what the customer asked for. Prime example: I quote you $65 for a set of brake pads, $40 each for rotors plus labor to change the front brakes on your econo-box. You tell me you can buy pads for 8 bucks & rotors for $12 each at the local ChinaMart discount store. OK Fine. I'll install them if you insist but call them, not me when your cardboard pads & Chinese slag metal rotors are junk in 9 months. You see where I'm going with this ? This is the kind of stuff their lawyer will tell the judge if you take them to court. Do you have PROOF you didn't ask for the "Earl Sheib Special" when you dropped the car off ? Also please consider this.. The shop that has it now may very well be exaggerating how bad it is to get you to spend more money. Auto repair & auto body is a tough way to make a living in this economy and it wouldn't be the first time a shop trashed a competitor simply because they want your business. They are notoriously cutthroat towards eachother. Not all of course but it's also not uncommon. Just some stuff to consider. Have you tried talking calmly & professionally to the owner of the shop that did the work the first time around ? Threats of lawsuits generally result in a big GFY response...

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Matks post above I feel, is spot on ...ever phase and read as a whole.
The sign basically said "You can have it fast, you can have it cheap, or you can have it done right" Pick ONE
And that is an old school sign that still hangs in many a workshop.

The paint job currently o my camaro ..The 1st time I had someone else do it..paid...they screwed up...moistrure in hi build, edeges not blocked etc etc laxy stuff.
I walked in with the cash in my pocket....I drove out with the car and told him to sue me.
I have had issues....
Prevuiously I have done the work myself...
its cheaper, even buying welders etc and one ends up with a well fitted workshop for 'free'
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do panel and paint..just follow instructions exactly, patence..a lot of irt and never take a short cut.

Our car club over the last 5 yrs...did exactly the above and now have a very nicely restoed 'club car' to haul the tents displays etc for shows and runs...and a spare car for members dont have a car....And a whole heap of members who have skills they never had before
We also now have a very well equiped workshop for ppl to work on their cars

This doesnt help out Blues immediate issue, which if I read right...
Still on a tight budget, and still doesnt have the cash for the project to finish, with a long extened period still...
Sure recovering money will help..IOF the court case goes in his favour, if the settelement is enough and if they pay up which is doubtful/
A lot of IFs in there....Im no gambling man, if I was I would not think to highly of those odds at the end of the day.
Caufht between the ocean and deep blue sea.....not a nice place to be,

So what would we do ?

I dont know what car/ Hot Rod clubs are like in the states....my 1st suggestion and this applies to ANYONE complenating getting into cars as a hobby....Join a good car club.
u know what shops to us and what not to...u have a huge resorce of iformation and skills at your finger tips.
Next..and I have mentioed this many times over the yrs.....
its cheaper, even buying welders etc and one ends up with a well fitted workshop for 'free'
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to do panel and paint..just follow instructions exactly, patence..a lot of irt and never take a short cut.

Our car club over the last 5 yrs...did exactly the above and now have a very nicely restoed 'club car' to haul the tents displays etc for shows and runs...and a spare car for members dont have a car....And a whole heap of members who have skills they never had before
We also now have a very well equiped workshop for ppl to work on their cars

EG a good 'up there' quality paint job...panel work done....u are looking at a good (in NZ ) $6500 to 8000 bucks...
reasonable Compressor 1200, undercoating guns, lines 700, Finish gun 700 materials down to the last sheet of paper 1000..... Say 3K
A week and 1/5 off work full time on the car.

Panel.... mig welder 1500, files hmmers dollies etc 100.. griders wheels etc 700
Socket sets impact hamers spaners etc 700....1/2 sheet of panel steel 150 epoxy, etch, filler seam sealers etc 500
Once u get started u will find most of the off the shelf patches u will not need..make your own....I have never used a patch panel.
Thats about 3500K plus any panels and stuff u may NEED (not want "budget" remeber)
Time hard out, 1 to 2 weeks.
My times allow for learning curve...

So looking around 10 to 12 K plus patch panels for a pretty well fitted out workshop and your car panel and painted with 2 to 3 weeks solid hard out work.....

Bottom line is
How much do you REALLY want the car?
And How Broke are u REALLY?
And WHAT are u REALLY prepared to do to get it...
Remeber these trades do not require PhDs...they do require a bit of reading 'how to...." patence..a lot of that and just simple plain old common sense.
Got these quailties , realy want the car...go for it
Other members here have....and these guys park up, or at a show, even in a car park...
"Who did the resto"
"I did"
"No I mean what shop"
"I did in my home garage"
THAT is pride....that is pride and respect that is earnt. Doesnt come better than that m8

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

First off guys...thanks for the posts. I really truly appreciate it.

Second. I found all of my invoices...I paid a total of 16k. It was over the course of about 2.5 years...he worked on it sometimes full time...others not so much. It depended on what else came in. Should have been the first sign.

Anyway....

As to budget...I'm not made of money, but I never let it get in the way either. The deal was he told me what I needed, and I bought the panels or whatever else and either had it shipped to his shop, or brought it over myself.

I never asked him to "patch" anything...I told them to do what needed to be done to get a nice car keeping in mind its not going to be a show car but rather something I plan on driving a lot once complete. For example, he told me there was no way to repair the roof or drip rails....I bought new ones and he installed them. Same goes with the tail panel, deck lid, hood, etc. He specifically told me the quarters were fine, which is not close to accurate now that it's stripped....which it should have been done to begin with but again, he never recommended it. I'm not a body guy, that's why I went to a "professional" shop...for his professional opinion on what needed to be done and to do it.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

ok I stand corrected. For 16k it should have been perfect AND painted. The first posts made me wonder if you went looking for a steak dinner on a hamburger budget. Let us know how it all turns out.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

ok I stand corrected. For 16k it should have been perfect AND painted. The first posts made me wonder if you went looking for a steak dinner on a hamburger budget. Let us know how it all turns out.

Thanks, that's kind of what I was thinking. I completely forgot that I do have an attorney on retainer through my companies prepaid legal option so I may go that route and bypass small claims all together.

Also big thanks to Bobbie. Not sure you're screen name but what you emailed me really helps shed some light.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

ok I stand corrected. For 16k it should have been perfect AND painted. The first posts made me wonder if you went looking for a steak dinner on a hamburger budget. Let us know how it all turns out.

Ditto..thu my comments on DYO still apply.

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

the key words i your post patch patch patch. should be reapir repair and the type of repair should have been stated .patch =grind it and bodo it .repair =cut out and replace rusted areas of sheet metal

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Sorry to hear of the unfortunate situation that you/ve found yourself in, Jason...you are not the first to face this fork in the road.

I had to pull mine out under the cover of darkness to get it out, and thank God that he hadn't done much more than look at it...and this took the better part of six months.

Some excellent suggestions offered so far.

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but a couple of questions linger in my mind. Did you either get some references of his work, or see any past projects that were completed before the work started?

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Aloha Jason,
My screen name is BOBBIE, If you need to check out my past post for more detail about my case. I hope things work out.

Bobbie

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

If I needed body panels installed I would go to these guys at the AMD Installation Center. All they do is install panels with the goal of not using any filler. They do no body work or paint just install panels. What I think is impressive is they post their prices right on their web site. Plus, since they are part of AMD they have access to every panel you could possibly need. I know this does not help your situation but it looks like a good alternative for future reference.

http://www.theinstallationcenter.com/index.html

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Bobbie,

I find this thread interesting and have been through the frame off restoration process myself and have delt with sub standard work. I hope that you keep this thread up to date with what happens. Hopefully it will all work out. :thumbsup:


This restoration stuff has always been in the eye of the beholder. Sometimes, a persons vision is a little blurry compared to 20/20......



Brandan-

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

jason, unfortunately this happens quite often. first of all i would take $15,000, out of his lying, theiving, no good *ss, and the other $1000.00 i would take for a retainer and sue him. i have no respect for lyers or theives and if what you say is true, he is both. for $16,000 you should have gotton a car back instead of getting a car back ready to be worked on..im sorry about this rant, but this kinda thing just burns me up!!!

 

Re: anyone here ever sued a body shop for doing crappy work?

Its actually worse...after going through my checkbooks tonight I'm already over 18k and im missing one of my checkbook registers. I'm disgusted with him as well as myself for letting this happen. I'm going to get some professional advise and will update this thread as allowed.

 

WOW I guess you should be real happy you didn't have the $$$ for paint too :yes:

Not all body shops work on these "old cars" and finding one is tough. The shop I went to doesn't turn out World of Wheels cars but for what I wanted and paid.... I'm happy.

I went once a week to see progress (and had a few disappointments) but it's all good now and already had my truck back to him 2 times (new accidents )

I was going to go with 80% quarters...he talked me out of it and into full quarters saying yes they cost more, but are cheaper to install and $$ is a wash for a better final outcome....that says something right there to me.

All but 5 panels were replaced (rockers,upper/lower valances,and header panel)... Pics here

 

I had a body shop in North Richland Hills put quarter panels on without removing the surface rust or manufacturers decals. Half the plug weld holes on the right outer rocker were not welded up, none of the rust underneath removed sheetmetal was dealt with as asked, several other minor things. I should have sued, recovered the money and have had the work redone properly. With the pictures I had of the terrible work it was an open and shut case. I had to stop payment on my check to get their attention.
Instead I let them pick it up and "fix" everything. What a joke. Hard to believe a quality shop would put out such crappy work. They told me I could pick my car up on a Friday or they would leave it outside-they had a car show there the next day. Wouldn't even put it in a trailer they had sitting around. My cost $5500. I still ended up filling the plug welds they overlooked.
So, I say sue them, recover the money, and get the job done correctly.

 

Upon the advise of a family friend/lawyer, I'm first sending them a demand letter asking for them to either refund me 12k of the 18k I paid them so I can have it properly repaired, or for them to come pick the car up, sand the entire thing down to bare metal and properly repair everything to my satisfaction. I'm going to give them 2 weeks and if I don't get satisfaction I'll be suing them. The real question is if I do small claims (12k limit here) or use an attorney (who's probably going to charge 25/30%) and go for the entire amount.

 

... The real question is if I do small claims (12k limit here) or use an attorney (who's probably going to charge 25/30%) and go for the entire amount.

Both

The Judge will need to clearly see where/how/when they screwed up in failing to supply you the finished product you contracted with that body shop for.
Have an attourney help you write the court documents so the Judge can find the information he needs to rule clearly delineated in terms he understands to realize what you lost, you are claiming, and the what the judgement should be based on.
These documents will allow you to present the case to the small claims court (if you decide to go that way) in a less emotional way showing you are not out for vengance in you settlement - just trying to recover your "Losses" and get back to where you should be/would have been had they done the job you have paid them to perform properly.
And - if you do decide (after seeing the amount of work to get this ready for trial to get a positive verdict) to use counsel to represent you that part of the pre-trial prep will be done ...

This will of course cost you a few $$$, but will almost always result in more positive ruling from a court in favor of your claim, as they can/will be able to see you actual losses and decide how to more fully compensate you for those.

 

I am sorry to hear of yet another company that doesn't take pride in their work. I was a napa parts and paint guy and after seeing the difference in a shoddy and professional body shop first hand, i will only recomend one of the 12 in town. For that kind of money you could have bought another car in respectable shape. It should have been returned perfect and painted as well for that price. I dont trust body shops and i dont have money to pay them so i am doing it all myself to make sure it is done right. I hope they are willing to make it right with you or if not you are compensated . We will all be crossing our fingers for you.

 

..... I don't trust body shops and i don't have money to pay them so i am doing it all myself to make sure it is done right..... We will all be crossing our fingers for you.

x2

 

Originally Posted by bangcamaro
..... I don't trust body shops and i don't have money to pay them so i am doing it all myself to make sure it is done right..... We will all be crossing our fingers for you.

And the ones u do trust pay craftsmen...and craftsmen pull big money for just that reason...care and attention no short cuts, anything less is not acceptable.