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Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Headers?

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9.8K views 49 replies 9 participants last post by  KB05  
N
#1 ·
Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Headers?

Trying to help someone with a First Generation Camaro (Canadian manufactured car), factory 327 with factory cylinder heads & Powerglide transmission and factory air conditioning, but the car and owner live outside of my area so I'm trying to help remotely. The drivers side header fits fine, but on the passenger side, the #6 primary tube is rubbing against the underside of the A/C "suitcase". The motor mounts and frame stands have been checked and are said to be correct, the only other thing I've come up with as a possibility is body bushings/mounts which the owner is checking into.

I don't know of anyone in my area with a First Gen, SBC and factory A/C so I have no local ability to "see" how tight things are in this area with or without Dynatech headers. All the First Gen, SBC powered cars I know of in my area either don't have A/C, or have aftermarket A/C without the factory "suitcase". Some good photos of the area in question would be helpful and especially more helpful with the Dynatech headers installed but any photos of that area with the factory "suitcase" would be helpful to begin with?

Thanks in advance :)
 
D
#2 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Scott, stupid question here I guess, but does the Dynatech headers specify NO A/C ?? Dynatech part# 74021310 and 74011310 specify for use with A/C. What # Dynatech does he have ??
 
N
#3 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

DT said:
Scott, stupid question here I guess, but does the Dynatech headers specify NO A/C ??
Click to expand...
Donny, not a stupid question at all. I spoke with Greg Fuesler of Dynatech the other day and these headers were designed with factory A/C in mind. He doesn't have any way of knowing how many of their headers have been purchased and installed in factory A/C SBC 1st gens but did tell me the passenger side header has remained unchanged for at least eight years and with the volume of these headers they have manufactured and sold, he and I both think the odds of every set not making it to even one factory A/C car seem pretty slim. But one can't be sure of this so therefore the question to the Team Camaro community in hopes that someone out here has been down this road before with this combination. Thanks for your reply and your very valid question.
 
D
#4 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Summit lists 74021310 and 74011310 for use with A/C.
 
#5 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

If the headers are correct, and if the motor mounts and frame stands are correct, my guess is going to be body mounts if original. Most originals I've seen were basically disintegrated into nothing. Worse case bust out the bfh.
 
D
#6 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

blue89bird said:
If the headers are correct, and if the motor mounts and frame stands are correct, my guess is going to be body mounts if original. Most originals I've seen were basically disintegrated into nothing. Worse case bust out the bfh.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree, motor mounts, transmission mount and body bushings.
 
N
#7 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Donny & Jason, we three are on the same page on this, but I'm hoping someone out here that has this setup installed will chime in for verification. Thanks for your replies.
 
C
#8 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Could it be the headers? I have a 68 Camaro with a 327 and Factory A/C. I used the Hooker Super Competition Headers. While the fit was tight, the right hand header clears the suitcase. I did have to dimple the header for the idler arm bolt. Everything else fit perfectly.
 
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J
#9 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Is the trans mount correct? Is it broken? I used a taller trans mount from a truck to lift my engine trans a little higher to install an HEI so it did not hit the firewall. This would lift the engine in the rear and could cause your header tube to be lifted into the AC box area. Remove the trans mount and see if the tube comes down enough. You can also get the shorter correct if checking this works. If you get shorter mount and it's still high you could mount the cross member on the bottom of the sub frame to bring it down a little more but keep in mind distributor clearance at the firewall.
 
N
#10 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Joe Harrison said:
Is the trans mount correct? Is it broken? I used a taller trans mount from a truck to lift my engine trans a little higher to install an HEI so it did not hit the firewall. This would lift the engine in the rear and could cause your header tube to be lifted into the AC box area. Remove the trans mount and see if the tube comes down enough. You can also get the shorter correct if checking this works. If you get shorter mount and it's still high you could mount the cross member on the bottom of the sub frame to bring it down a little more but keep in mind distributor clearance at the firewall.
Click to expand...
Good thought Joe, I'll suggest the owner check the transmission mount as well. As far as she knows, everything drive-line related is original to the car but still worth a check, thanks.
 
K
#11 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Thought I would chime in...this is my car you are referring to Greg said he reached out to you scott. My car is a 350 not 327. It does hit on both sides as I have column shift and it's hitting the shift linkage as well as the ac box. I did a ton of research prior to purchasing the headers and it does say it fits with factory ac. I'm planning to check body mounts tomorrow but that will only solve the ac issue not shift linkage. I may just make a new linkage bracket but the ac box is a definite issue as I was planning to swap the engine and the new heads will be taller therefore the tube would be into the box even worse :( any help is appreciated!!
 
N
#17 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
Thought I would chime in...this is my car you are referring to Greg said he reached out to you scott. My car is a 350 not 327. It does hit on both sides as I have column shift and it's hitting the shift linkage as well as the ac box. I did a ton of research prior to purchasing the headers and it does say it fits with factory ac. I'm planning to check body mounts tomorrow but that will only solve the ac issue not shift linkage. I may just make a new linkage bracket but the ac box is a definite issue as I was planning to swap the engine and the new heads will be taller therefore the tube would be into the box even worse :( any help is appreciated!!
Click to expand...
Hi Kelly, glad to see you came to the forum and welcome to Team Camaro. This site is a great resource of Camaro enthusiasts supporting each other, helping you out directly this way should be easier. I'm pretty sure Greg told me you had a 327 but no matter, the 350 external dimensions that matter would be the same. I didn't know you had column shift or that the headers were having issues on the drivers side, That makes your situation a bit more challenging.

I have AFR 210 heads in my 69 and the ports are raised .25" so with how tight your passenger side is now, I doubt you'll get the 210 heads in there unless you find the body bushings are totally shot and the body has dropped a full 1" onto the sub frame. Let us all know what you find with the body bushings and the transmission mount. If you have a photo of the drivers side where your column shift linkage is interfering that could be helpful as well?
 
B
#18 ·
L
#13 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Why go with such huge primary tubes on a 350 ?

1-5/8" would have been plenty. Will Dynatech exchange ?
 
J
#15 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

If your getting new heads they will not be any taller/bigger unless your going big block or SB2 heads or a raised port. Everything else will remain the same.

Not many or any manufactures make headers for column shift. You going to need to modify the shift linkage. What I have done is rotate the linkage mount on the frame and connect it with 2 bolts instead of 3 to move it out of the way just enough.

I would remove the trans mount and have jack on the tail shaft of the trans an lower it down until you have clearance....if you get it and see what happens. The trans mount has most likely been replaced as they do go bad. It's also possible because I have seen it that the cross member has shims or washer between it and the sub frame along with a trans mount all in the name of fitting an HEI or other style distributor that is larger than stock diameter.
 
K
#16 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

I am building a 383 for it and was looking at afr 210 but will prob go with 195 instead. So will be .100" taller I believe? I will check trans mount tomorrow as well and considered rotating the shift bracket but wasn't sure if that would create another issue (change the pivot point and not be able to select gears properly). Thank you for the suggestions:thumbsup:
 
N
#21 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

DT said:
What Dynatech part# are we talking about here ???
Click to expand...
Kelly could absolutely answer that but I believe they are either 74021310 or 74011310 the only difference between the two being a 2.5" or 3.0" collector size. Kelly, which Dynatech header part number are you using?
 
D
#24 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
The stands measure 2 5/16 ish on one side and 2 something on the other (sorry notes/measurements are at my shop) part # is 740-11310
Click to expand...
OK great, step#1, part# is good. LOL . I have a BB in my car, just a thought here, I will measure from the center of my air cleaner nut to the passenger fender and see what I get. If you have the incorrect BB stands I would think your measurement should be the same as mine no ?? I'm measuring 24 1/2 inches from center of air cleaner nut to pass fender. Just a thought here. Also Are the motor mounts different for a 327 and 350 ?? I thought they may have been ?
 
K
#23 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Also I did release the passenger side mount and lifted the engine to see if it would torque/offset it enough to give some clearance but it made it worse. Tube hit harder into the box
 
K
#25 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

I will measure the air cleaner to fender however it didn't appear to be off set. As far as 327 mounts I'm not sure? I know there are 3 different stands but going by measurements mine are correct for my car. It doesn't have 327 that was misinformation. It's a documented 350 rs ss it has been parked in a garage since 1981 the guy I bought it from drove it for the summer and didn't like it. Thus far everything has been original to the car. The lines and gaps on it are visually good as well so if body mounts were no good I assume the subframe and rad support would have had to sag at the same rate or the gaps would look awful??
 
N
#28 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
I will measure the air cleaner to fender however it didn't appear to be off set. As far as 327 mounts I'm not sure? I know there are 3 different stands but going by measurements mine are correct for my car. It doesn't have 327 that was misinformation. It's a documented 350 rs ss it has been parked in a garage since 1981 the guy I bought it from drove it for the summer and didn't like it. Thus far everything has been original to the car. The lines and gaps on it are visually good as well so if body mounts were no good I assume the subframe and rad support would have had to sag at the same rate or the gaps would look awful??
Click to expand...
Kelly, don't assume anything about the body mount bushings, the radiator support mounts won't impact the spacing of the sub-frame to the body like the other four critical mount locations. The two at the end of the sub-frame rails and the other two under the firewall. They should each be one inch tall when new. I removed a set just a couple of weeks ago and the two bushings from the passenger side were only 2/3 as tall as the two from the drivers side, and the drivers side were compressed quite a bit as well so the passenger side were in very bad/worn/compressed condition.

All the lines and gaps on that car were just fine. One relatively easy way to tell is cut a small 1" thick block of wood and try to slide it up where each of the body bushings are, it probably won't fit. Do the same with a 3/4" block and then a 1/2" block until you find what fits snug up there. That will give you a good idea what shape the old rubber body bushings are in. If they are original to the car, they will at the very least be compressed some, at the worst they could be compressed and worn to less than half of their original height.
 
D
#26 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

I'm pretty sure the mounts are different. Just an FYI here I guess. Other than checking the motor mounts, transmission mount and the body bushings, I'm not sure what else to tell you. I agree about the body bushings, probably not the issue.
 
N
#29 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

It would be great to find someone with these exact headers in a factory A/C car, I'm finding it hard to believe that Kelly is the first one with this combination but it is possible no matter how unlikely. :confused:
 
K
#30 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

:thumbsup: I'm "hoping" it's something you have suggested and not the headers. If it's trans mount how would it change? Would it "tilt" the front of the engine down? As that would potentially solve both issues sorry I'm not completely car savvy
 
N
#31 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
:thumbsup: I'm "hoping" it's something you have suggested and not the headers. If it's trans mount how would it change? Would it "tilt" the front of the engine down? As that would potentially solve both issues sorry I'm not completely car savvy
Click to expand...
A transmission mount that is too tall or thick if you will would lift the rear of the engine up higher then it was originally manufactured. This is a trick or band aid some use when replacing the old smaller cap points distributors with the large cap HEI distributors to create some extra space between the firewall and where the distributor is. The other was that some make space is beating the firewall in with a hammer which is an ugly approach. Does your car have an HEI distributor with the large cap or does it have the original smaller cap points style distributor?

Original points style distributor looks like this: http://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/fire2.jpg

Newer and larger HEI distributor looks like this: http://www.speednik.com/files/2014/04/dist.jpg
 
K
#33 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

So I just released the body mounts and dropped the subframe 1" and no change. The headers are still hitting. I also took out the trans mount and raised the transmission and no change. Spark plug wire is very close to the tube as well.
 
D
#34 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
So I just released the body mounts and dropped the subframe 1" and no change. The headers are still hitting. I also took out the trans mount and raised the transmission and no change. Spark plug wire is very close to the tube as well.
Click to expand...
Lower the transmission, don't raise it. Take out the transmission mount and see what happens. Did you take a measurement from air cleaner nut to fender for the heck of it ??
 
D
#37 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

KB05 said:
I have trans lowered 1" and subframe lowered by 1" as well and it's still hitting
Click to expand...
Wow, this certainly is a mystery. Gonna have to look at the motor mounts next I would think. Running out of options here.
 
J
#38 ·
Re: Anyone with 1st Gen SBC & Factory AC w/Dynatech 1-7/8 Pimary Heade

Body bushings are available thinner that can drop the body down. Are your rubber, poly or solid?

Solid mount are the ones that you get that are shorter. If you have solids they should be checked.
 
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