Yes, a weak spring on the pump will sound like a bad lifter and only get worse. Check it with your stethoscope and you can confirm the problem.

 

Yep, on my 88 Monte SS...you'll swear it's a lifter until you break down, see no fuel in the carburetor, replace the pump, and the noise magically disappears. Pull the pump, check for slack in the arm.

 

One other thing I should mention. I did replace the pump mounting plate with this item; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/WEH-WM4

I will check thickness of the plate to make sure it is the same as the stock steel one.

Fuel pump is new, but there is always a chance it has a bad or broken spring... it does pump a lot of fuel. I was squirting fuel from a squeeze bottle on start up, but engine only turned over a few times and the pump had the fuel bowls full.

 

OP

I assume you are using oil with high zinc content or additive to regular oil in your flat tappet motor??

if replacing the fuel pump, might want to also remove the mounting plate and inspect both ends of the push rod. If scoring on the push rod end (one that is against cam), then use a bore scope to inspect the cam lobe for fuel pump.

Internal engine noises typically do not get better on their own so if your stethoscope identifies fuel pump as source, remove and inspect.

 

I would immediately pull the pushrod out and inspect it. Make sure there is no wear on the ends.

 

/\ all excellent info guys, thank you. And this is exactly where I am headed.

Pulling the pump tonight or tomorrow night. I do not think it is a bad spring. When installing the pump, I had to re-clock the outlets on this pump to work in the F body frame (and tap the 30 degree bolt pattern - another story). When I had the pump apart, everything looked good - I did not notice a broken spring. I did reassemble per Edelbrock's directions - compressing the spring when tightening the diaphragm. But I will break it back down and inspect it.

When I put it together the pump rod looked fine. I am using Rotella T4 oil right now, it is high zinc and per BPEs recommendation - they were out of their oil at the time.

And 100% agree, noises do not fix themselves. It does sound like a lifter, but pump is pumping strong.

What is strange about this is that the noise does go away as soon as RPM is raised. This has me thinking the push rod could be slapping at idle. Is there lash between the pump and rod? Or is the pump supposed to be in contact with the push rod all the time?

I did order a ARP lightweight pump rod. My thinking is to verify the pump spring is intact, if so, inspect the cam lobe with a scope, then reinstall with lightweight rod and see what happens. If not, I'll back up and punt.

I would upload video, but I cant figure it out... maybe I need to put on you tube and link to it? This site won't let me drag a mp4 file over. I'll follow up when I see what is going on in there.

 

The pump arm has to be compressed against the rod to install the pump. No free play allowed.

 

Long shot, but not impossible, check for an exhaust leak. Depending on size and location, it can make a ticking sound. The fact that it quiets down when warm is suspicious. I would re-torque your header bolts just to be sure. I have had it happen to me in the past. New gaskets didn’t cover the exhaust port to header tube properly.

 

He says it's loud at idle....not when warm...did I miss something?

 

quick background; bought this car with BPE 383 and it was not running great. Engine had lots of older accessories on it. I didn't really "know what I had" so I decided to replace old worn items. I did check inside engine as best I could and all is in very good shape, compression is excellent and bores look new. I replaced distributor, water pump, fuel pump etc. Long story short, it is back together and runs fantastic.

Everything went super smooth on the initial restart. Had a small fuel leak, was from gauge port - easy fix.

I am hearing a metallic ticking, at first I thought it could be a rocker hitting on the valve cover, but honestly it sounds like it is coming from the fuel pump. It is definitely coming from the front of the engine. Using a stethoscope noise is loudest while on the fuel pump.

Anyone ever have an issue with a mechanical fuel pump making noise?

I did some internet searches and found possible causes of broken spring in the pump, and swapping to lightweight pump rod as fixes. Just curious if anyone here had a similar issue (searches here didn't pull anything). Maybe they just make noise, but I don't think this is the case. Fuel pump is an Edelbrock 1721. Engine has flat tappet hydraulic cam.

The noise is only at idle, goes away when RPMs increase. This is kind of making me thing the pump rod could be the cause...

I tried uploading a video, but haven't figured out how to do that yet...

Sometimes a stethoscope can help isolate the noise, I use them a lot.

Amazon.com: Lisle 52500 Mechanic's Stethoscope : Automotive

Amazon.com: Lisle 52500 Mechanic's Stethoscope : Automotive

www.amazon.com

 

@ZZ_430 that is the one I have. Certainly sounds like the tick is loudest on the fuel pump.
@BillK I was reading about this today, honestly I didnt realize the pump rod rotated like a lifter, nut that does make sense. I may not swap rods, kind of depends on what I find in there.
I did think about exhaust leak. That was actually the first thing that popped in my head. I can see gasket material outside the header flanges, and it looks solid. But not a bad idea to check the bolts.

Noise seems to tick at idle, and stop as soon as RPMs increase. Not getting to mess with it tonight, but will tomorrow night or Saturday for sure. Need to get this sorted so I can start the next project.

 

Update, finally got to look at this closer.

To clarify below, I understand these measurements don't neccessarily read from the installed location to the area (lobe) that rides on the pump arm, but holding the pump in position does reflect a clearance problem, and backs up these numbers.

"stock" pump (no telling what it is) measures 1.375" from sealing face to tip of pump arm. When installing pump with a gasket and the pump rod all the way up. the pump will not sit flush on the mounting plate, there is probably a 0.125" gap between the pump gasket and mounting plate. The pump arm spring must be compressed for the pump to mate flush on the mounting plate.

Edelbrock pump measures 1.125" from sealing face to tip of pump arm. When installing the pump with a gasket, the arm never contacts the rod, without a gasket I think it just barely touches the pump rod. I believe the ticking I am hearing is the pump rod slapping the pump arm. When idling the pump spring is strong enough to cycle faster than the rod is traveling, so the cam is pushing tohe rod down on a closed pump arm and "slapping" it. At higher RPMs (when the ticking goes away) I believe the pump spring isnt cycling fast enough to "slap" the pump rod. Hope that makes sense... I had the Edelbrock pump installed with a gasket, the one that came with it.

My fuel lines are not set up to run with a stock type pump. I really do not want to re-do those, so re-installing the stock pump is not what I want to do.

What would you do? Install the Edelbrock without a gasket and use RTV?

My plan is to call Summit tomorrow and see if I can get some info on my options. My thinking is something isn't right with the Edelbrock pump I have, and I need to replace it.

 

I slept on this, I may be a fault here and caused this problem.

This fuel pump had to be re-clocked for the inlet/outlet to work in the chassis. When I did that, there is a chance I over compressed the diaphragm when reassembling, I am thinking that could prevent the arm from fully returning. I am going to go back and double check my own work, before I think it is a product issue.

Re-clocking the pump was a pain in the rear. The pump comes drilled at 30 degree increments, but holes are only tapped at 60 degree increments. So I ended up having to tap the holes I needed to use. For this issue I will say, Edelbrock... get it together and fix this.

 

Re-clocking the pump was a pain in the rear. The pump comes drilled at 30 degree increments, but holes are only tapped at 60 degree increments. So I ended up having to tap the holes I needed to use. For this issue I will say, Edelbrock... get it together and fix this.

Maybe only tapped at 60* increments for a reason?

 

OP

Do you have AN fuel line fitting on the Eddy FP?

I have the Edelbrock braided AN fuel line from pump to carb but just have a standard Carter FP I use a AN adapter fitting on the carb.

My $.02 is your surgery on the Eddy FP may have caused your issue. If its salvageable, great but if not, a standard Carter with 3/8" hose in and threaded fitting out, you can just get an AN adapter if that is what you need or other hard line fitting adapter but Carter makes a few pumps with either 1/2"-20 inverted or 5/8-18 UNF out.

 

I agree, I put the problem on me first! After some more research, I found the pump rod stroke is 0.34" according to one cam mfg.
I am certain I had the pump arm compressed more than that when I retightened the diaphragm. The spring in this pump is stout, more like a valve spring... I am going to disassemble the pump and check it out, I don't think there is any damage. I do have AN adapters threaded into the pump. Hope to have it sorted out tonight.

Looking at the pump, I don't think clocking at 30 degree increment had anything to do with it. You can see in this picture the holes are there but not tapped.

Just FYI in case you haven't figured this out, there ain't much room to install a mechanical fuel pump in a 1st gen, it is tight and the ports need to be oriented in a very narrow area.

 

Not sure what EDDY FP you have but it states:
"Clockable lower housing can be rotated in 60 Deg Increments for best inlet/outlet alignment."

In the pic shown in link and your post, it looks like it wants to be clocked counterclockwise 60 degrees to mirror more what a stock SBC in/out ports are.

Man at 10 times the cost of a Carter...you would think it would install itself.

Edelbrock Performer RPM Series fuel pump for SBC and W Series Chevy - Edelbrock, LLC.

 

Edelbrock 1721. I didnt see any comment on Summit's site about clocking degrees, didn't see it on Edelbrocks either... ? You found it!

I agree, overpriced for sure. Clocked as out of the box - inlet port is in the frame. Clocked 60 degrees puts the outlet port in the block. I had to split the difference, the holes were there so I tapped them. Knowing a little about the pump internally, I don't think it matters at what angle the ports are clocked, it works the same no matter what, the diaphragm doesn't turn, just the port bowl.

Here is the instructions that came with the pump, does not mention stroke distance... failing to verify it - that's my bad.

 

Did you do step 3 correctly?

it wants the lever held down all the way before tightening screws, so the diaphragm is fully stretched apparently.

Then again maybe the FP is bad out of box unless the step 3 thing done incorrectly caused the issue.

Yeah I would think 30 or 6 degree clocking would not matter but I am not the injuneer who designed the pump

 

I did, I think I had the arm too far compressed. The pump rod stroke is only 0.34" and I am sure I had it compressed more than that. The arm will continue to compress way past 0.34".

 

I wonder if you are overthinking this whole deal.

I'd say ditch the Edelbrock pump, I've never had good results with one.

Holley carb = Holley pump. Just bolt in on and go.

 

I am guilty of doing that before!

But this time there is a problem, pump is making a noise and that ain't good, got to fix that. Ditching the Edelbrock is an option, but from what I have read it is the same as the Holley pump with a different sticker on it... I don't know for sure.

I tried to post a video of the engine running and the noise it was making but the site wouldn't let me drag an MP4 file, may need to do a youtube link...

 

I am guilty of doing that before!

But this time there is a problem, pump is making a noise and that ain't good, got to fix that. Ditching the Edelbrock is an option, but from what I have read it is the same as the Holley pump with a different sticker on it... I don't know for sure.

I tried to post a video of the engine running and the noise it was making but the site wouldn't let me drag an MP4 file, may need to do a youtube link...

Perh a stock replacement?

 

I had a 20 year old Holley pump that went with the old motor. Bought a new Holley pump. Was clocking the bottom when I noticed one of the valves was stamped off center. Overall decline in quality from the 20 year old pump was remarkable. Sent it back to Summit and bought an Eddy pump. Clocked it, NP. Been running it for 9 years now, works great. Clocked per instructions no issue. I found it is easier to hold the pump in a vise by the mounting flange and actuate the pump arm with a box end wrench. Much easier to install the bottom that way.

 

Okay, trying my tech skills here. Check out the videos below, I can here the noise, but there is a lot of background interference... I have no idea why the videos are posting different. I have confirmed the ticking was coming from the fuel pump, that much is clear.

this video is with the fuel pump installed with gaskets between the mounting plate and pump (both gaskets). There is for sure some lash between the drive rod and the pump arm.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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this video has the pump installed with no gasket between mounting plate or pump. I sealed with black gasket maker. Big difference. I am not 100% confident there is any pressure on the fuel pump arm, but the best I could tell the rod is at least touching the arm.

 

I would not use it that way. It could be loose enough to damage the cam.

 

IMHO, there should always be contact, pressure against FP lever and pushrod and PR to cam lobe. Any slop is no good

Either spring in pump is weak or PR is worn to much it is no longer at spec length if there is slop. Both gaskets should be used

 

I have confirmed the issue is with the fuel pump. From the test above, and confirming the other parts are in good order. Cam is fine, verified with a camera, and I have a new ARP pump rod - it measures correct length. Comparing the Eddy pump it to the one removed, there is about a 1/4" difference from the mounting face to the arm "lobe".
Called Edelbrock, was on hold forever... they confirmed there should be pressure when installing the pump, even when the rod is all the way up in the block. And the guy I talked to had never had this problem before. The guy I talked to at Summit said the same, something wrong with this pump.

Summit is the bomb, they are sending me a new one, and a new mounting plate gasket.

 

Anxiously awaiting quietness report.

 

I got tracking number on the fuel pump today wont be here until Monday.

So while waiting, The plan was to go thru the rear end and do the TKX swap. Was hoping for a solid weekend of wrenching, but wife needs a weekend away, so... now car is on jackstands, rear end tore apart and predicting not a lot of progress this weekend.

 

Is the aluminum fuel pump mounting plate the same thickness as stock?

Also, the aluminum plate will transfer more noise than the stock steel one.,

 

Same thickness or possibly a touch thinner. New pump coming Monday. Hope to have this sorted out asap next week.