Welcome to TC.

I dont know 67's, but there are many here that can help you out :thumbsup:

 

Thanks Dave!!

 

L-78 is 4K

 

The first few L78's were 4P coded cars. I owned the 3rd earliest known to exist and it was a 4 p car either 04A or 04B I think. I'd have to check my notes to be sure of the build date. It was an original motor car with POP and I spoke to the original owner!

 

I believe the earliest L78 cars were coded 4P and should be dated around Mar of 67. Check with www.camaros.org for a more accurate time frame. I think the 4K started in April.

 

Yes, as JeffH said, early L78's were coded as 4P. Friend of mine has one. Late February should be okay -- I don't know when the car was first introduced for sale but I think the engine was known in January and first AIM (assembly manual) references are dated Feb 8 if I remember correctly.

In any case, you said he's got the POP. Simply check the engine code on the POP and you have your answer.

 

If I recall correctly, the ealiest car produced was 03C.

 

Wow!! You guys are fast!! Thanks for all the response!
Im sure of 2 things--
#1- He (the owner)did not offer to let me handle the the POP book, but as he thumbed through it and showed me the plate I did make out what the engine code was or close anyway T03??MQ
#2-The trim tag is for sure 03? (I think 03b) as these are the first digits you see when you start to read the tag.
Im going to try and go back later and buddy up with him and see if I can see the car again and see if he will let me look a little closer.
Will keep you posted!! Thanks again!! Will still like to know what the The first L78 is that is or was around at this time

 

...the engine code was or close anyway T03??MQ...The trim tag is for sure 03? (I think 03b)...

Dude.

Get the car, marry his daughter, do whatever it takes.

Or email me his address and phone #.

Seriously.

 

OK, I dug out the file. My car was the 3rd earliest known car at the time I bought it. It was an 04B car with a T0405MQ motor and a C-9-7 casting date. I would be very skeptical of anything earlier than 03B or 03C. Again, if memory serves me, Grumpy Jenkins car was the first L78 and it was an 03B car I think. Good luck!

 

Per Kurt S awhile back.. My Pace car is the earliest known L78 Camaro. It is a 03C 4P car. I think Grumpys car is later.

 

Thanks Clill...I knew it was either your car or Grumpy's. At least I was close

 

The origins of the "first" 4K coded Camaro is still a mystery, although it is generally believed that Mr "Grumpy" Jenkins received his first in the beginning of March. As for Charlie's car (Clill above), his is one of two specially prepared cars delivered to Chevrolet Engineering in late March (Build order dated 3/30/67). The order reads the cars were "changed to RPO L35, 396 V8, with M40 Turbo Hydramatic transmission...". (as published in John Hooper's 1967-68 Camaro Reference Book) The engines were disassembled and thoroughly checked. Also noted is the tags read 03c to 06c. and for the super sport code, 4P as well as 4N AND 4K was used. As for Charlies car being the first L78?
Get the trim tag information, along with a picture of it and lets talk!

 

Dave...I posted a pic of my trim tag above so I'm not sure what you are asking for. What you don't mention in the above post about the work order is the car is to be delivered to Chevrolet engineering as a L78 4 speed and then converted to a L35 M40. I have the L78 Protecto plate.

 

Dave, welcome to Team Camaro!!
You should do some searching and reading on Charlies car, it's pretty special. Search for 67 pace car. Charley's car is "THE" indy pacer.

 

I'll save you a bit of time...here's some pics of THE Pace Car! (From the Super Car Reunion 9)

 

More...

 

A couple more..

 

And here's a video of the car running...:hurray: Well, sort of....(Click on the pic)

 

Was this car (not Charley's, i'm talking about the other one that started the thread) sold new by Hechler Motors?

 

I really apreciate all the response to my questions! Thanks for the pics of the pace car, that is an awesome car!! To answer deejaygee--I dont think that is the name I saw on the pop book. If memory serves it was Tenn. Is Hechlers in Tenn.? There is only so much I could remember from this intial visit, as I said earlier he has no interest in selling the car and seemed reluctant to let me see it.
Im going to continue to stay in contact with this guy and hope that I can obtain the car before he passes on. He is not in the greatest of health.
This guys sister bought the car new, she passed away not long after buying it. I was hearing about every other word he was saying as I was day dreaming over the car. The car has sat for about 30+ years in the same spot.
It seems to hold some major centimental value to this guy. He is not the most friendly person I have ever met, but not rude or nasty either. This car may never be for sale??
I wanted to get some input on the build date and trim tag code so I can be prepared to make an offer if the opportunity presents itself.
Does any of you have a POP or build sheet ect. to go with your 4p coded L78??
Im going to try and see if he will let me clean off the trim tag and get a better look the next time I go. He barely removed the cover enough to open the hood half way and to peek through the drivers door window. Even with the cover on the car is covered in thick dust. No windows in the barn and BAD lighting!!
Well see what happens? I will keep you all posted if you are interested? Thanks a ton!!!

 

Charlie, your car has a 5500 redline tach? Protecto-plates are being reproduced. I am wanting to see the car's trim tag that is the topic of this discussion. If it is 03B as the guy states, then what? They got rid of 4K and 4N until after your car was built? I think that if your car is a real factory produced, Regular Production Order car with all the big block items on the car but reflecting a 4P then a lot of other people with their POPs can say the same thing you are. I am not discounting that your car isn't THE real Pace Car, but I have a huge problem with Chevrolet sending it out to Fisher body for big block set up with 4P and not 4N. I know that 4N was available way before 03C as I had an original BB car that was a 02B. I guess we'll just have to see.

 

The more I think about your post, Charlie, the harder time I have believing what you are saying! Your car was delivered to Chevrolet Engineering circa 3/30/67 as an L78 setup then changed to a 325horse car with turbo 400? That combination was available regular production! I had one. The motor is the only real significant difference between the two options. So, the Engineers pulled the motor and converted it to low horse, taking off the heads, intake, carb and set it to the side. Then after the race did they put the parts back on? Or does your car currently look like a L35? No matter the case, I am sure your car is special and a big piece of Camaro history.

 

Where have you been ,the history of the cars build sequence is documented with factory work orders stamped on the components. Fact early L78 were coded 4p (this car was orig an L78 with4spd.). Fact the protecto plate is the original one that came with the car. Nothing should be a surprise in terms of how this car was built ...it is basically an experimental car that changed as the engineering dept deemed appropriate. This is all documented by engineering work orders. This is not a regular production car, but a true jewel with more documented pedigree than any car I've ever seen.

It was sold to Dan Young following the race in it final engineering configuration L34 withTH400, minus some communication components (two way radio equipment. Charlie is the second owner. Not sure why this information is so hard for you to digest. The documents have been public since the early 80's that I'm aware of...

 

How many other 4P L78s have you seen? NONE. Other than Charlies. Charlies was not an RPO l78. Charlie's car is the exception to the rule. If you have seen others, then it is possible that ANY 4P car out there could be an original L78. Or better yet, the guy working on creating the trim tags for Fisher ACCIDENTLY stamped a 4P and then ran over to the guy preping the body and said OOPPPSS I made a mistake, this is going to be the first L78! The Body By Fisher tag is to direct Fisher on how the body was to be prep'd for Chevrolet. The car started life as a small block 4spd pace car off the assembly line. then sent to Chevrolet Engineering. I have been around for along time and LOVE L78s!!!!! The warranty card POP comes AFTER the race when car was for sale as it sat from Chevrolet's Engineering Department. The final engineering configuration is the POP info. Fisher Body did not produce a POP. The better question is, why is this so hard for all of you to grasp???

 

Shaugs, if what you say is true about the paperwork(youv'e seen it?) then again I would say that the car was a small block car on the assembly line that was pulled off, converted to L78 and then shipped off to the track. Makes perfect sense, BUT again this car is special and not the first 4K car. My understanding is that in December, for about a week or so, the first few
Z28s were 4P cars? Why would the first L78 cars be 4P and not 4N?

 

For what ever reason, the 4K code was not available for the first L78's built and 4p was used. Yes I have seen the documentation, and have had the car on a lift for an inspection with many others at the camaro nationals this year.

Further there are several other known documented L78 with a 4P code, I have seen three. A perfect example is Zedder's:

" The first few L78's were 4P coded cars. I owned the 3rd earliest known to exist and it was a 4 p car either 04A or 04B I think. I'd have to check my notes to be sure of the build date. It was an original motor car with POP and I spoke to the original owner!"

No mystery here...
__________________

 

your right Fisher didn't produce the POP, GM did after the car was built, BUT before it was sent to the engineering group to be worked on. In March of 67 there was no L78 code on the Fisher side, so they used 4P (don't know why they didn't use 4N, but they didn't - might have something to do with tailpanel blackout the 4N code would have generated but I'm guessing) The car came to Chevrolets side of the plant as a 4P coded L78. when the car was completely assembled, the POP was printed, and the car was sent to the engineering group so they could do the final preps. The engineering group didn't build the car, they just made the mandated changes necessary for it to perform its pace car duties. It's really not that tough to understand.

 

Here's a link to Zedder's red-on-red documented L78 4P car. I found pics and the story in the "Internet Wayback Machine".