[Lurchhammer]

Hello, I'm new to the forum and I've already done a 'search' for advice on fuel pumps, tanks, and line size- because I know everyone hates a noob who asks a question that's already been answered a 100 times.

While I did find a wealth of great information, it seems that every car has different individual requirements depending on horsepower and how it's going to be used primarily, so here's mine:

'67 Camaro street/strip (but rarely)
496 ci (5500-6000rpm redline stroker motor)
Mighty Demon 850
Performer RPM Air-Gap intake
GM '781' Oval Port heads, mildly ported, one size bigger Manley Race-Flow valves, dual springs and full roller rockers
10:1 comp, all Forged rotating assy, 4 bolt main
Comp Cams 286H .556 lift
Mallory Unilite and MSD 6AL box
Hooker headers 2" primary to 3 1/2" collector with 3" Flowmaster exhaust
Richmond 5sp OD manual trans (rated to 600ft/lbs)
12 bolt 3:73 posi, moser axles, c-clip elim
Forged steel 1350 yokes and moser steel driveshaft
Radial T/A G-Force 275-60R15


Probably waaaay too much info:boring:, but might as well be thorough. Nothing psycho at all, just a stout, big c.i. 5500-6000rpm motor with roughly 500 hp/575 ftlbs and a beefy driveline that will withstand it (hopefully!).

So what I'm hoping will be enough is:
A new stainless stock-style tank with 3/8" sender line to:
3/8" stainless hard line to:
Some kind of high flow filter (stumped on this one- need at least 110 GPH on the suck side of a mechanical fuel pump) to:
Either a Performer RPM mechanical fuel pump (110 GPH) or a Holley billet mechanical pump (170 GPH)- no regulators required for either pump to:
Some kind of line to the carb (braided -6AN (3/8") might look nice, or a hard line?)
Maybe another high flow filter inline after the pump?


My biggest questions are:

Is 3/8" fuel line big enough?
Are those 2 mechanical fuel pumps listed adequate?
Since mechanical fuel pumps are 'suckers', I need the tank inlet to siphon from the top- no fancy sumps or tank outlets right?
Fuel filter suggestions on both the 'suck' and 'push' sides of the pump- how many microns of filtering is needed in each?
I have one of those 3/8" Summit fuel lines with a gauge and sintered bronze filter- are they too restrictive for my system? (less than 110 GPH?)
Will this fuel system be NHRA approved?

I'd really like to keep it simple and avoid electric pumps, monster braided lines/fittings, and fuel cell/sumps if possible. The stock 3/8" fuel systems were good enough for the old 6L6's, hopefully a few minor upgrades will be enough to support my 496?

Thanks so much for any advice! (and to anyone bored enough to read through my long winded post)



Edit
Ooops, I missed a big thread on 3/8" line not being big enough and unregulated mechanical pumps not good enough either. I don't want to go psycho on an overkill fuel system, but I don't want to skimp and riska burned piston either...

So how about:
1/2" hard line http://www.inlinetube.com/Preformed%20Lines/Camaro/67%20Camaro/Fuel%20Lines/CCF6703.htm
and a better 'race' mechanical pump with a regulator? (which one?)
Now the problem is fuel tank 1/2" outlet line, carb lines and filters?

 

[BigBlock1969RS]

You have a pretty similar engine setup as mine (489 10:1 6k rpm compression street motor)

I am going with a 1/2" feed and return line however I went with a electric fuel pump (my block is a GenV no mechanical boss for a fuel pump).

Aeromotive SS Street/Strip pump:
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/products.php?prod=7

I also went with the return regulator they recommended (13301) as well as a 100 micron filter before and 10 micron filter after the pump.

They have a nice application chart here:
http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/d_systems.php?systemdisplay=carb

Aeromotive also has some mechanical pumps as well (thou they seem known for their electrics). Other fuel pump manufacturers to check out are Barry Grant, Carter, Holly, Mallory and Walbro who all seem very popular.


As much hardline as possible is the way to go, less chance for leakage. I got my hardlines prebent at http://www.rightStuffDetailing.com (for cheaper than I could buy the lines themselves locally).

Still in the process of mocking everything up. Hope this helps.

 

[vintagemotion]

The tank you had in mind with the original outlet location is fine with a mechanical pump. Do have it upgraded for 1/2 or #8 line. Hard line(aluminum, steel), steel braided, or any of the nylon covered hose will work and be fine for track use so use whichever one is in your budget or that you like best. Run the 1/2 line to a good high flow inline filter, such as BG #171040 or System One #201-203408. Both have #8 fittings and a reuseable element. From there go to a good high volume mechanical pump, such as the Carter M61045. From there continue with your 1/2 line to the carb. You will not need a regulator with this system, yet it will flow plenty of volume for your application.

 

[Lurchhammer]

That Aeromotive application chart is very helpfull, thanks!

I think I want to go with a regulator and high pressure mechanical pump just to be sure it won't lean out at WOT.

What are the benefits of a return line system and bypass-regulator/bypass-pump over a regular style regulator without a return line? I'm not familiar with that at all.


Also, is there anyone who makes a 1/2" line sender unit? I suppose I could make one- I guess the sender would have to be welded to the 1/2" stainless line since solder doesn't stick to it very well? Maybe another type of metal (steel or aluminum?) would be better to use for that portion of line?

The member on here (with photos) who made his own 1/2" line sender unit did a great job and could probably sell a bunch of them if he's interested.:thumbsup:

 

[Lurchhammer]

P.S. the website for therightstuffdetailing.com seems to just be a search engine that directs you to jegs, etc. now, is there a different link to an actual company that makes fuel lines? thanks!

 

[BigBlock1969RS]

Try:
http://www.rightstuffdetailing.com/parts_catalog.htm

I messed up put "the" sorry.

I know return vs dead head is a hot topic. There are trade offs either way. A return style system is a little bit easier on the pump, especially an external one.

OEMs have moved towards a dead-head system mostly due to emissions.

 

[batboy]

I'm following this discussion closely. Thinking about a stroker 496 too, but hadn't gotten to planning the fuel system yet. I suppose the gas tank has to come out to have it converted to 1/2" outlet.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Good thread. Paul, you're savvy and a good writer. Tell us about yourself. Nothing too personal, just car stuff, age, experience? Curious minds would like to know...

 

[Casey Kilfoyle]

Rick's Hotrod Shop makes a slick stainless sumped tank with dual 1/2" outlets available from Jeg's. It's kind of pricey, but made really well. Just a thought.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Rick's+Hot+Rod+Shop/758725/10002/-1

 

[BigBlock1969RS]

Rick's Hotrod Shop makes a slick stainless sumped tank with dual 1/2" outlets available from Jeg's. It's kind of pricey, but made really well. Just a thought.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Rick's+Hot+Rod+Shop/758725/10002/-1

Very high quality item, sumped and baffled (I have this tank). There are other options you can get that include notching (for easier exhaust routing) and extra volume capacity.

There is a used DSE tank setup for a Carb for sale on Pro-touring
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48933

 

[Straight-line-69]

I run a similar components on a 496 though I have GM Performance heads. I tried my exisitng stocker pump but it couldn't keep up above 5000 RPM's. So I purchased this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...artdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRT-M5901P&N=700+400415+308882+115&autoview=sku

No problems since the swap and I use the factory 3/8" fuel line.

The lower body of this pump can be 'phased' to accomodate the position of your fuel lines.

I highly recommend it.

 

[Lurchhammer]

Good thread. Paul, you're savvy and a good writer. Tell us about yourself. Nothing too personal, just car stuff, age, experience? Curious minds would like to know...

Thanks, I appreciate that!:beers:

I'm a 39 year old jet mechanic for Delta Airlines. I've been into muscle cars since my father helped me build my first car at 16; a 69 Chevelle. Since then I've owned a few more GM's and have settled down with my '67 Camaro RS/SS. A few years back when Delta had their 'cutbacks', I was tempted to sell it, but my wife told me that I'd always regret it if I did. She's a smart lady and a 'keeper'!

I've had this car for about 10 years and I try to do as much of the work myself, always learning along the way. Here's a photo from a few years back with a 396 tunnel ram engine and shortly after without it- a little too 'balky' on the street since I did't have the patience to tune it properly. I got the idea for the stripes from the '70 Baldwin Motion Camaros and thought it would look cool on a 1st Gen. The stripes give it just enough to be 'different' among a sea of other deck striped cars (which are awesome too, I just wanted something a little more unique).

She's torn apart right now as I'm going through the drivetrain and undercarriage with the upgrades listed in my first post. I should have her done in plenty of time for the Spring Spectacular show at the Daytona Speedway.

I have to admit that I go to a lot more car shows than races. I've read a few of the posts here flaming people for that and their 'Royal Purple' . The closest thing I've had to a true race car was my '68 Camaro that I bought the week before I got married, because I had heard how all your money somehow gets re-directed into furniture and baby clothes after that happens . I didn't build the chassis on that car (only the engine), the Powerglide and 5:13 gears got old really fast on the street. I sold it right before I got the '67. Here's an old photo:

I'm learning so much from the old posts here on this website, I thank you guys for sharing things you've learned, sometimes the hard way!

 

[vintagemotion]

Do not use a regulator with a mechanical pump. Regulators are designed for electric pumps. The pulses in the mechanical pump can cause irratic fuel pressure with a regulator. A regulator will also restrict flow and heat will build in the lines. You will actually have more flow with the system as I first recommended. However, if you want a higher pressure pump use a bypass such as Barry Grant #171021. This will keep the pressure steady and allow continous flow keeping the fuel cool.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Paul! I've got one of those too. Here she is 25 years ago helping with an engine cleanup.

and last winter, same job, same car.

 

[Lurchhammer]

That's great! My wife won't get her hands dirty though.

 

[Lurchhammer]

Do not use a regulator with a mechanical pump. Regulators are designed for electric pumps. The pulses in the mechanical pump can cause irratic fuel pressure with a regulator. A regulator will also restrict flow and heat will build in the lines. You will actually have more flow with the system as I first recommended. However, if you want a higher pressure pump use a bypass such as Barry Grant #171021. This will keep the pressure steady and allow continous flow keeping the fuel cool.

Good tip on the regulator, thanks! How about the Holley billet mechanical pump? 170GPH at 7psi preset, no regulator required, #8 fittings in/out. Sounds pretty good to me, although a little pricey.

 

[vintagemotion]

Holley, Edelbrock, etc are basically copies of the original Carter design. Since they are so similiar and they are all quality manufacturers I wouldn't sweat the brand. Personally, I use the carter pumps on all the street engines I build, but I would use either of the other two without hesitation if that is what somebody wanted.

 

[wildman926]

Carter 172 Pump feeds my Voodoo solid roller, AFR headed 10.5-1 496.

Can see HERE

Here is my setup and parts list for my 496 -

 

[Lurchhammer]

That will save me some cash over the Holley with the same flow specs, thanks! (wonder if they have one in chrome?)

wildman926 did you use the stock 3/8" fuel line from the tank to the pump? I can see the 1/2" line up to the carb, but can't see the tank line very well.

If you did use 1/2" line all the way from the tank, what kind of sender did you use with a 1/2" pickup? I've seen some self-fabricated ones on the internet, but none available for purchase.

 

[Bgonz 69]

Do not use a regulator with a mechanical pump. Regulators are designed for electric pumps. The pulses in the mechanical pump can cause irratic fuel pressure with a regulator. A regulator will also restrict flow and heat will build in the lines. You will actually have more flow with the system as I first recommended. However, if you want a higher pressure pump use a bypass such as Barry Grant #171021. This will keep the pressure steady and allow continous flow keeping the fuel cool.

My buddies been running a Edelbrock high flow mechanical pump and Edelbrock Holley style regulator on his 496 Camaro for years, probably 10 or more !!!!! He runs 10.0's @ 134+ mph in our weekly points program and has never had a problem. I'm telling you.... That pump & regulator have been on three different engines and are at least 10 years old.


Hard to believe but true....................


And he has a 1/2" line stuffed thru his stock sender too !!!!!




bob