T- Tonawanda,02-feb,08-8th feb, HB 300 horse 350 . HB is a 1969 motor for a 69 Camaro with a turbo 350. I believe if it is a factory warranty block it would start with CE. In my opinion the pad is very clean for a 45 year old motor. A FEB motor should have a partial vin stamped beside the oil filter location I think ?

Rick

 

This should help: http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml


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Not knowledgeable on the pace car replicas, and I don't like that pad stamp, but will leave comment on that to the experts. The pace car replicas were made from 02D to 05A and had to be an SS, so the 'HB' suffix code would be appropriate if the car has a TH350 transmission. The numbers on that pad stamp indicate it was assembled at Tonawanda, NY, on February 8th (1969), as an L48 350 with a TH350 trans; but as I said earlier, don't like the actual stamp.....
What is the car's VIN, and can you post a clear picture of the trim tag?
To answer your questions, IMHO "factory replacement" is seller-speak for a restamped block, as an engine/block replaced under warranty would have a 'CE' pad stamp. It would affect the car's value considerably (if it is not genuine in this case), so I assume nobody disclosed anything like that to you when you bought it?
(Sorry Rick, you beat me to it as I typed a longer reply! )
PS. The numbers on your block pad aren't the VIN, so it won't match.

 

If the vin is not on the pad and it is original block the alternate vin location is beside the oil filter which is shown on the CRG link gew248 posted above. IT is very hard to read as it is stamped in the rough cast part of the block. You will have to provide pics of the trim tag and the alternate vin for the real experts here to let you know if the stamps and trim tag are real.
Good luck
Rick

 

Here is a the VIN by the oil filter.

 

Here is the trim tag.

 

Just because the putty is missing in the rivets doesn't mean the tag has been removed !

I presume that's how Mark came to that conclusion ??

 

I think you should have this thread moved to tag team. Just post you would like it moved hopefully one of the moderators will see it and re-post.
That way the experts will have a better chance of seeing it and giving their opinions.
Does the partial on the block match the cars vin on the dash ? It is the clearest partial vin I have seen.
Rick

 

I'm okay with this being moved to Tag Team. No it doesn't match the VIN on the car (N615635).

 

VIN on the block looks like 402339, can't make out the assembly plant (19N?) but its not from a 69 Camaro at all and definitely not correct for an 03B Camaro. First 69 Camaro VIN was 500001, and yours would be beyond 9N600000. Trim tag is good, but its been off the car. Does the engine have a 1/8" square plug going into the cam journal area above the timing cover just to the right of the engine suffix code?

 

Blew the partial vin up to 400% the letter beside 19 is a K this is for the KANSAS assembly plant which produced chevelle's and el camino's (sp?) SO the pad stamp is for a Camaro but the partial vin says something else ? The trim tag has been removed but is apparently a good tag. So now you may as well look further to find out what else has been changed on your "matching #s car. There is a partial vin on the trans also. you will have to check CRG (Camaros.org for location) rear axle code which is on the passenger side facing towards the back seat.
Interesting to note the owner before the dealer got it knew it was a "replacement"block.

 

Bryan - I moved this thread. CRG may have the vin in their database and have some history on the vehicle. But yea something is not right in the statement matching numbers that is for sure if the block partial doesn't match the vin tag. Does the block vin match the transmission partial vin?

 

Just contacted the seller. This should be a fun week. You guys have been great! Now I'm really missing my '68 RS! I'll keep you posted. Could be a 49k mistake.

 

I agree that the partial VIN on the block is from a 1969 Chevelle.

 

Trans = Y8M 15N rear end = BL 0313 G2

 

Trans YM15N - Toledo TH350, Assembled August 15, night shift. Not original. Does it have a partial VIN?

Rear axle - 3.07 open, assembled March 13. Could be original, but seems a bit tight for an 03B assembly.

 

Rear axle {BL 0313 G2} - 3.07 open, assembled March 13. Could be original, but seems a bit tight for an 03B assembly.

Mine is an BT 0310G2 E rear end with 355:1 gears for the same week a couple hundred body numbers from his cowltag. Mine is original so rears must have been in tight supply that week.

The pad stamping looks original. The Vin derivative stamped in the rough casting is 19K402339 and confirms the engine is out of 69 Chevelle built at the Kansas City plant.
The HB code in the stamping is a 350/300hp with auto trans. This code was used across the Chevrolet lineup. Nova, Chevelle, Camaro and full size car. They found an engine that predates the build of the car with the right stamping on the top pad but it was out of a Chevelle. I guess they felt that meant matching numbers. It's not the original engine to the car.

I concur with Jonesy's theory. Matching numbers for engine specification not matching vehicle vin.

 

The pad stamping looks original. The Vin derivative stamped in the rough casting is 19K402339 and confirms the engine is out of 69 Chevelle built at the Kansas City plant.
The HB code in the stamping is a 350/300hp with auto trans. This code was used across the Chevrolet lineup. Nova, Chevelle, Camaro and full size car. They found an engine that predates the build of the car with the right stamping on the top pad but it was out of a Chevelle. I guess they felt that meant matching numbers. It's not the original engine to the car.

 

I like learning neat new stuff !
Thanks Jonesy

 

Ouch!!! 49k mistake. L-48 out of a Chevelle/Camino, trim tag off the car...wow! Do you have the POP or any other docs? Is the full Vin even for a eight cylinder? and does that match hidden Vin? Find that trans Vin.....

 

HB was also used on Chevelles. I think it's an original pad, just out of a Chevelle.
Axle is original.
No info on that VIN, but it matches the tag.

 

So I have to ask at this point Bryan, do you like the car enough that if the dealer did a partial refund say 20 k or so would you be happy to have her then? Assuming the restoration is good and body sound etc. Just never know what to think in these situations. Maybe I get too attached to objects. Just me I guess.

 

With all the information out there today I find it amazing that people buy cars like this one then ask later. I've been with Jerry M. a number of times looking at cars much like this deal and they are mostly horror stories .

 

I do like the car. I feel like it's a solid 30k car. It's drives good. I'm hoping to hear back from the seller soon. I would keep the car for 30k.

 

To your point Green, I agree 100%. The place I bought it from has a great reputation and the owner is pretty well known. I'm refraining from sharing this information until I give them a chance to respond. I'm still not implying they intentionally mislead me. I only hope they do the right thing.

 

I would not believe anything a dealer selling old cars told me. I don't care who it is. These guys are out to make money and thats it.

 

I would not believe anything a dealer selling old cars told me. I don't care who it is. These guys are out to make money and thats it.

And thats the truth!!

 

That's too bad I guess. I still haven't heard back from the seller. They sell a TON of cars and motorcycles on EBAY. I'm hoping to hear from them tomorrow. On another note. I am convinced it IS a genuine Z11. The car is in excellent condition. No rust, runs and drives great. New top etc. So what I'm asking is what is a car like this worth? Assuming engine and trans are "period correct". I have a ton of receipts from '98 when I was told it had a frame off restoration. The receipts would support that. The person I bought the car from purchased it in 2006. I'm thinking the person that sold it to him wasn't completely honest about the motor etc. Any thoughts on the value?

 

Value and what you can sell it for are 2 very different things.

Sort of depends on what a guy tells and what a guy omits when he decides to sell.

I see a nice car like this and I'm thinking 40+. Certainly much more then 30 But then again I care very little about the whole matching #s business unless it's a very very special car.

The #s game is very convoluted IMO All Original? Matching #s? Period correct? and Now Born With all seem to be bandied about depending on who's selling and who's buying. Then you can have Date coded Glass that is new with any date you want, Re-stamps, Fake or switched Trim Tags and on and on.

IMHO unless you have a well documented paper trail or a cert from a 3rd party expert it's just another Camaro.

I also think you have an uphill battle thinking you're going to get a dime back from the seller.

 

Its a sweet car for sure. I believe the previous knew exactly what he had and was selling, just as you will by going through this process. Im guessing 40k