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454 lifters knocking on passenger side only

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454 lifters ticking
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#22 ·
Globemaster68 said:
... Any thoughts on this guess?
Click to expand...
My 'thought's' would be - that the annular groove of the cam/lifter oiling path at the rear bearing should distribute oil to both sides - if there is a distributor properly in place.
GM didn't require an o-ring at the transfer groove of the distributor - so I don't know why any other distributor would need it if it is properly machined and the oil system is properly sized. (dry sump system excluded ...)
And I've never had to install o-rings to control or provide the proper oil flow to the upper end.
And :yes: there is a lot of 'bypass' oil routed around the lower distributor groove that routes oil to the passenger side. It oils the cam gear and returns excess upper flow to the sump.
BBC's are 'Priority Main' oiled, with the bearing oil distribution to the mains and then to the cam bearings via a transfer hole - lifters are via a galley for each side at top of block. (SBC's are via a common center galley(s) and distribute to cam first and then mains ...)

* Is the manifold and head combo a 'stock' height?
* Or have there been cuts/modifications that have changed the mount height of the distributor allowing it to not seal this transfer groove properly?
* Is the base adjustable on the distributor you have and was it measured and set correctly?
* If you remove the rear lifter and 'oil' the system do you get major flow out of the oil galley from the rear of the block?
* No one installed 'restrictors' in your block did they?

If you're going to prime again, try pulling the front-most lifter on this side not getting oil and see if you get any flow out of that location - if not trace back to where you do have flow ...
 
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#23 ·
GM's dizzy isn't machined for O-rings, it's a bit larger in diameter than the aftermarket and fits more snugly into the holes in the block. The aftermarket dizzy was built for O-rings, will hemorrhage/leak oil back down into the pan if you don't have a good O-ring fit.
 
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Discussion starter · #24 ·
Ok...I put the O-rings on the distributor and put the motor back together. No change. I did notice that the intake and exhaust pushrods for #2 and #4 and the intake for #6 could be depressed with my thumb about a 1/16th to 1/8th of an inch. #8 and exhaust on 6 were solid and all on driver's side were solid. Figure it's got to be an oil issue not getting oil to the front of the passenger side lifters. Next option is to call the engine guy on Monday and see about the galley plugs and if they have holes in them, change them. The other thing I am thinking is changing the oil from the break-in oil to 30 wt. Any other thoughts? :confused:
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
An update for those that are interested... Work kept me from digging into it the way I wanted and I thought I had exceeded my capabilities, so I took it to a shop that was recommended to me. When I took the vert there, he had a 51 Ford F100 rodded out in his garage so Ithought I was in the right place. Not so much. After several weeks of tweeking, putting the car aside for other jobs, and swapping rockers, some more tweaking, etc, ect... it was determined he had no idea why it was doing what it is doing. At that point I took it back to the guy that did the machine work on it as he builds motors for several of the racers in the area. He still thinks it's a lifter that's not pumping up. Since I replaced the lifters, he thinks it may be a problem with the oiling system bypassing the lifter somehow. He is coming to house this week to help me tear into it. We'll see what comes out of it. More to follow.
 
#26 ·
More than likely, lifter(s) are notpumping up, they could be stuck. If you pull the intake manifoild to look, look at the plunger cup inside, the cup the pushrod sits in. If the plunger is sunk into the lifter body, good chance the lifter is stuck. Replace it or them.
 
#27 ·
Thanks so much for keeping your post active and letting us know how things are evolving... makes this website all that much better!

I was going to suggest something simple on this... exhaust leak on that side... however, seems to reason that you might have a lifter issue. A collapsed lifter would be very obvious from the valves though? Let us know what you find. :confused:
 
#28 ·
In addition to above observation I don't see how a lifter failing to pump up causes a "knock" without the rocker indicating excessive lash no matter how much you adjust it. Lastly should cause typical tapping sound vs knocking sound.
 
#29 ·
Denvervet said:
In addition to above observation I don't see how a lifter failing to pump up causes a "knock" without the rocker indicating excessive lash no matter how much you adjust it. Lastly should cause typical tapping sound vs knocking sound.
Click to expand...
Yes,dont they usually leave loose adjuster nuts,that never stay tight?
 
#30 · (Edited)
The sound of a loose CLACKING Hydraulic Lifter is distinctive and different then from most other tapping sounds an Engine can make. When adjusting Hydraulic Tappets with the Engine at Idle you loosen each on separately until it CLACKS and let be for the Lifter to Pump Up, then you tighten slowly to 1/8th or 1/4 or 1/2 turn whatever and you can feel the engine load up as you do - This is a sign that the lifter is probably OK.

If you can adjust a Hydraulic lifter while the engine is idling I would believe the lifter has pumped up; however a bad lifter can collapse after adjustment while the engine has run for awhile but then the following scenarios can case similar symptoms:

If you have used the STK OEM Rocker Studs the Rocker Shaft Bores can ride the Threads of the OEM Studs causing noise and you are unlikely able to properly tighten the Poly-Locks as there is not enough thread height and the surface not machined to make a clinch. Proper 1.9" to 2" ARP Rocker Studs ensure the Rocker Shaft Bores don't ride threads, they have machined heads and enough thread on top to properly clinch Poly Locks. You really should no need more then 1/8th turn to keep a Hydraulic lifter from Clacking.

Ensure your Rocker Arm to Valve Spring Retainer Clearance is OK.

Your Anti-Cam-Walk Devices should lock that Roller cam in at .004" to a max of .008". Never use the STK OEM or cheap after market Timing Clover as a Positive Stop for a Cam Button without some sort of bracing to the Water Pump housing as the Timing Cover will Flex.

What kind of Anti-Cam-Walk Wear Plate to Block are you using?

It is possible the Fuel Pump Rod is too short, have the wrong Angle on the Fuel Pump Arm or the Fuel Pump Rod is being jammed by Too Long a Bolt that runs into the Fuel Pump Rod Cavity from the front of the Engine Block.

Another thing: Lining up the Push Rod Guides is the most time consuming part of assembling a BBC. If they're not properly aligned or clearance too big the Rocker will flutter Side to Side and you will never achieve descent Lash or Hydraulic Lifter adjustment in your case. It is common to cut the link Bar of the Push Rod Guide in two or use a Solid Bar and Hammer to align the Guides while Torquing the Rocker Studs plus File or Squeeze the Forks for proper Push Rod clearance. Proper Push Rod Guide alignment is also easy on the Rocker Needles and Valve Guides.

Windage-Tray ticking Crank or possible Timing Chain ticking Timing Cover?

What can be really bad is that during assembly some small peace of metal, say something like a 1/16th" square piece broken lock washer found it's way into the intake runner of either your #2 or #4 Cylinder and is mashing about the top of one of a Piston - I've had that happen and to this day will NEVER use a Lock Washer anywhere near the Top Side of an Engine. To check this scenario: Remove all plugs and rotate engine by hand and feel for a Rub - Something I always do now after a Rebuild and before Firing Up.

What kind of Oil are you running?
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I dont think the rockers are riding the threads, but I will double check. I really didnt have any trouble tightening the locks. As far as a lock washer in one of the cylinders, I dont think so either...but you never know. I'm running an edelebrock aluminum timing cover with a summit cam button.(Has needle bearings in it. I dont remember what the end play was with the cam, but it wasnt much. I'll check that too. As far as what oil, I was running breakin oil (30W) and now have changed to normal straight 30W. A bit thick for the cold weather, but thought that would pump up a collapsed lifter. Not so much! Not an exhaust leak either. Changed the gaskets to no avail and it's pretty obvious the tapping is coming from inside. As far as the fuel pump, I took the rod out and ran it until it ran out of gas, and it was still tapping. I'll run it, pull the intake off and look for a collapsed lifter on Saturday, hopefully with the engine builder present. I'll post more then. Again, thanks for posts...it sure has me scratching my head, that's for dang sure!:clonk:
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Ok, for those that have been following...I apologize for the delay. I'm in the military and world events..yadda yadda...
Well, I worked with the guy that did the machine work and ended up pulling the engine and taking it to his shop. We tore it completely down and saw no visible reason why the motor was "ticking"...until we cleaned up the pistons. Then we could see where the valves had been lightly hitting the top of the pistons! Not enough to damage the pistons or the valves, but enough to make the noise as well as put marks on the pistons. I believe what happened is after I checked the valve clearance, (which I did do!) I then ended up advancing the cam 4 deg and didnt recheck the clearance. (Noobie mistake!) In any case, the machine guy ran a bunch of numbers on the set up (which was an edelebrock top end kit for a 454 that should put out around 550hp by their numbers) and said with the lift and duration and overlap of the cam, I might as well cut the motor in half because I wouldnt start generating power until I was about 3500 rpm and I would have no vacuum due to the overlap. He suggested a comp cam that would produce much better torque numbers, better range of power and be plenty of power for my 'vert. I went with that. There were several other issues with the edelebrock parts that we straightened out. My frustration is that there was no "warning" about using stock pistons with this kit or piston suggestions etc. If I can make the valves hit the pistons, I cant believe I'm the only one. Good news is the motor is back in the car and running like a champ. I have about 200 miles on it and no issues. Bad news is...I'm leaving the country for a year and wont be able to drive it! Bummer. Thanks to all for your help and opinions along the way.:beers:
 
#35 ·
First off - BE SAFE while you're 'out of country' :thumbsup:

Next, glad to hear you found the issue - specially before it became a BIG issue :eek:
And it would have eventually worked out that way :yes:
These parts are never meant to 'meet' while use ... :noway:

I've had more than one issue with Edelbrock components not being compatible with coomon/standard parts even though the 'kit' applications indicates it will fit.
Their cams also tend to be very dated design/spec when compared to modern deigns from cam specific suppliers. They will leave lots of potential on the table ...

Thank you again for Your service and posting follow up info!
Hope you're soon home and enjoying you ride again soon :beers:
 
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Discussion starter · #36 ·
Thanks for the kind words! As far as the edelbrock parts...concur. Had to have a valve job done on the heads as well as port and polish to get the intake to match up with the heads correctly. Some of it was the guy who owns the machine shop I was working with was a bit anal, but I would much rather have that than the other way! But most of it was the parts were not that well matched. On top of that, the roller cam was appaarently ground from a tappet core. As a backyard mechanic, I wouldnt have a clue what to look for with that. Ended up with a comp cam that gave me the power range I was looking for.
See ya on the road again next year!
 
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Globemaster68
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