hey guys, any thoughts on streetability for the big blocks above, its for a protoured 68 with a 383 tko600 and 373's, mini tubs, 4 link and dse frame connectors already. the 383 has ezfast efi on it which, if i can figure out the bugs would put on the big block. the car is really a sunday take it out for a spin kinda ride, maybe an occasional quartermile trip. im finding i dont really leave the car anywhere because its too easy to steal. trying to get opinions from people who have done it to see if they were happy with the engines. any help is appreciated
454 vs 502 vs ls3 hot cam
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ejs4732
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hey guys, any thoughts on streetability for the big blocks above, its for a protoured 68 with a 383 tko600 and 373's, mini tubs, 4 link and dse frame connectors already. the 383 has ezfast efi on it which, if i can figure out the bugs would put on the big block. the car is really a sunday take it out for a spin kinda ride, maybe an occasional quartermile trip. im finding i dont really leave the car anywhere because its too easy to steal. trying to get opinions from people who have done it to see if they were happy with the engines. any help is appreciated
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4,908 Posts
If you like the idea of a 454 the 502 is just more engine to love. The 454 is generally stroked out to a 496 with an added quarter inch of stroke. Same crank in a 502 gets you a 540 which can easily out put 700 horsepower and more torque than most rear ends this side of a Dana 60 or Olds rear can handle.
You can easily hit 700 hp with a blown or turbo powered LS-3 motor but it won't be any where as cheap or give you as many grins per mile as the 540. This is because of the difference between torque and horsepower. The 540 builds it's torque early outputting more power off idle than many 327's did flat out. It only builds power from there. Not as rapidly as the turbo powered car which takes a while to spool up then slams you in your seat for a moment that quickly ends because you can not run wide open throttle forever.
The big block is still pushing you back in your seat with the tires smoking for a block or two as power continues to build. Unlike the turbo if the cops will let you can hold it on the mat for as long as you have gas to keep it going as the bottom end is as massive as the rest of the motor all forged and cast iron. Gas will be an issue (it's relatively cheap now for swill but the price is still being elevated a bit for the 93 octane you will need to power this beast) and it is sucking it down so fast you can watch the needle move. Jay Lenno had a joke about his old Buick (It seats six; ... for dinner!) that was sucking up gas faster than the attendants could pump it into the tank.
That is the spirit of a big American V8.
Big Dave
You can easily hit 700 hp with a blown or turbo powered LS-3 motor but it won't be any where as cheap or give you as many grins per mile as the 540. This is because of the difference between torque and horsepower. The 540 builds it's torque early outputting more power off idle than many 327's did flat out. It only builds power from there. Not as rapidly as the turbo powered car which takes a while to spool up then slams you in your seat for a moment that quickly ends because you can not run wide open throttle forever.
The big block is still pushing you back in your seat with the tires smoking for a block or two as power continues to build. Unlike the turbo if the cops will let you can hold it on the mat for as long as you have gas to keep it going as the bottom end is as massive as the rest of the motor all forged and cast iron. Gas will be an issue (it's relatively cheap now for swill but the price is still being elevated a bit for the 93 octane you will need to power this beast) and it is sucking it down so fast you can watch the needle move. Jay Lenno had a joke about his old Buick (It seats six; ... for dinner!) that was sucking up gas faster than the attendants could pump it into the tank.
That is the spirit of a big American V8.
Big Dave
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1,456 Posts
Agree with everything Dave said.
I just wanted to add if you go BBC, use aluminum heads to help the handling. They erase 75 pounds from the front.
If you can afford this 502 block from GM, buy it. You can use a mechanical fuel pump with it. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Sportsman-Standard-Deck-Bare-Block-19212191-P10021C577.aspx
I prefer the BBC to the LS3 because I love original appearing cars. Some people slap chrome all over the engine bay but to me that's a turn-off. Love a sleeper with 396 decals.
It's not difficult to modify/modernize these cars and still keep them looking original.
I just wanted to add if you go BBC, use aluminum heads to help the handling. They erase 75 pounds from the front.
If you can afford this 502 block from GM, buy it. You can use a mechanical fuel pump with it. http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Sportsman-Standard-Deck-Bare-Block-19212191-P10021C577.aspx
I prefer the BBC to the LS3 because I love original appearing cars. Some people slap chrome all over the engine bay but to me that's a turn-off. Love a sleeper with 396 decals.
It's not difficult to modify/modernize these cars and still keep them looking original.
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2,284 Posts
I have the 496(really a 489) with a small blower(d1sc) it will put you back in the seat until you run out of nerve(for me that 3rd gear and on occasion 4th out of 6) of course with 427 badges.
Go with an LS. If you do research and are savvy with fabrication and wiring, it really isn't all that expensive...
Go get a junk yard 5.3 or 6.0, slip in a cam or heads if you have the budget, an Ls intake, a diyefi mega or microsquirt computer, and you'll be well over 350-360whp.
Go get a junk yard 5.3 or 6.0, slip in a cam or heads if you have the budget, an Ls intake, a diyefi mega or microsquirt computer, and you'll be well over 350-360whp.
Chris
If you can wait, in 3 months I'll be able to give you an HONEST opinion.
Engine history ... Full out pro touring 69" - 396 sold ... 468 BBC for a year then to a fully built roller 496 BBC (awesome power!! 625 Tq/620hp, scared the crap out of everyone, streetability all depends on cam selection and carb selection/setup. My cam was done by Chris Straub for 'my' car) ... sold the 496 and now I'm here ...
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=315930
I have never driven nor been in a resto-modded car with an LS setup but many guys like John above have and the results speak for themselves. I can't wait to try mine out in April. Unfortunately this is NOT a cheap way to go and cannot speak yet to whether the extra cost is worth it yet or not. If it was me though I would most definitely do a properly built 496 for 'your' car over a stock 502.
Cheers
Steve
If you can wait, in 3 months I'll be able to give you an HONEST opinion.
Engine history ... Full out pro touring 69" - 396 sold ... 468 BBC for a year then to a fully built roller 496 BBC (awesome power!! 625 Tq/620hp, scared the crap out of everyone, streetability all depends on cam selection and carb selection/setup. My cam was done by Chris Straub for 'my' car) ... sold the 496 and now I'm here ...
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=315930
I have never driven nor been in a resto-modded car with an LS setup but many guys like John above have and the results speak for themselves. I can't wait to try mine out in April. Unfortunately this is NOT a cheap way to go and cannot speak yet to whether the extra cost is worth it yet or not. If it was me though I would most definitely do a properly built 496 for 'your' car over a stock 502.
Cheers
Steve
An Ls swap can be inexpensive. An Ls swap can be the same cost or even less than building a sbc or even big block. The Ls has 6 bolt mains and very tough rods and pistons, guys slap on an 80mm turbo on jy motors and make 700who reliably. With heads and a cam in a stock Ls, after converting the frame stands, wiring, tank, computer, and sorting out trans issues, I would say the cost would be around the same as building up a big block. Ls's don't really need to be touched inside unless you are making big power imho.
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2,284 Posts
The money spent either way is money well spent
A 468 with iron heads will get you where you want to be. You are hearing "stroke it" and "aluminum heads". Might be nice if you have the ca$h, but for an average FUN car, you can do it on a budget.
Good luck.
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4,781 Posts
You can throw the "old school" argument out the window. You can dress an LS engine to look old school with a carb or a 4 barrel TB and an air cleaner. And you can relocate the coils off the valve covers if you want. I did.
Stock bottom end on a 6.0 LS junkyard truck engine, ported heads/cam/intake and it puts down over 450 to the rear wheels. Plenty for a cruiser. I love my LS engine!:yes:
Stock bottom end on a 6.0 LS junkyard truck engine, ported heads/cam/intake and it puts down over 450 to the rear wheels. Plenty for a cruiser. I love my LS engine!:yes:
Say what you like about LS motors....I went LS :yes:
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449281&highlight=jyd
Over 650FWHP with a carb, cam, a small bump in compression, and a turbo...went 9's in the 1320.
Not too shabby and on the cheap.
My motor was a fresh build...about $4500 in parts and rebuild
Another $1000-1500 in swap parts.
Over 550FWHP....guessing. Still tuning.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449281&highlight=jyd
Over 650FWHP with a carb, cam, a small bump in compression, and a turbo...went 9's in the 1320.
Not too shabby and on the cheap.
My motor was a fresh build...about $4500 in parts and rebuild
Another $1000-1500 in swap parts.
Over 550FWHP....guessing. Still tuning.
YouTube the channel "sloppy mechanics" to learn about Ls builds on the cheap. The guy, Matt Happel really knows his stuff. A lot of good info on tips and tricks as well as tuning. The computers he uses from diyEFI are really good.
Junk yard Ls fox body with a th400 just went 6.97's in the 1/4.
That's faster than my neighbors 632 Chevelle that runs 8.11s and is pribably 10-15x the cost of the Ls fox.
Not doubting big blocks by any means, there are some really fast all iron 468's out there. My cousin actually has an all iron 468 in one of his dragsters, and a shafiroff 565 in another. Can't beat a big block in that case, but for pro touring, the Ls wins, efi, all aluminum unless tuck engine, the weight alone will be a big gain in handling performance.
Junk yard Ls fox body with a th400 just went 6.97's in the 1/4.
That's faster than my neighbors 632 Chevelle that runs 8.11s and is pribably 10-15x the cost of the Ls fox.
Not doubting big blocks by any means, there are some really fast all iron 468's out there. My cousin actually has an all iron 468 in one of his dragsters, and a shafiroff 565 in another. Can't beat a big block in that case, but for pro touring, the Ls wins, efi, all aluminum unless tuck engine, the weight alone will be a big gain in handling performance.
If you didn't have to call it "Pro-Touring" you could just rework the 383 for 475-500 HP pretty easily. You wouldn't be admitted to the club w/o an LS motor though. The fact that you don't have a T56 is almost grounds for disqualification too. (You can always give it a name and cobble together a "build thread" later)
Al, all of your anti pro touring posts make me laugh. I think you are a closet PT wannabe ;-)
For the OP, I have an LS and love it. Sure they make great power and drivability, but I laugh when I see the words "budget" and "LS swap" in the same post. There is nothing cheap with an LS Swap. Sure, you might be able to get good deals on specific parts, but it takes more than a $1500 junkyard engine to get it going.
Since you say you only use your car occasionally, I would stick with what you have and upgrade the engine. LS swaps can easily go over $10k pretty easy. What trans or other mods do you have to the car?
Ha!
I'm just saving up for the next big thing when all this LS hysteria passes - Pro Touring Electric
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18,696 Posts
The least expensive component in doing an LS swap is often the engine itself
The other items that effect cost are:
Transmission and installation
Fuel system upgrades, lines and fittings
Cooling system
Swap Headers
Accessories and brackets
ECU, wiring harness, O2 sensors, and tuning
Air Intake and filter
Plus a bunch of little things that add to the cost.
IMHO if you have a strong running SBC or BBC convert it to EFI and enjoy.
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6,543 Posts
Funny stuff there! :beers:
Remember the good old days when we debated big vs small block?
Everything I have is old school, but truth be told, some day I'd like to go LS.
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