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Yes, another Pontiac fan! I've been working on her for a couple of years. Mostly during the winter, while there's not much that can be done outside, here in Montreal.

I just let the parts soak in vinegar for maybe 24 hours, Depending on the amount of rust, I may have to give it a brushing with with either a plastic or steel brush.

I actually soaked my convertible shakers in a bucket and they came out beautifully (one was covered in rust). Once they look good, I just rinse them off with water (dry them right away). Then prime.
 
Several of my friends also into older '30s car like myself have also had good results with a molasses/water mix in a vat. Apparently it's pretty cheap to buy, lasts a long time when covered and is gentle on parts. The parts I've seen come out looking very clean.
 
Great work Buddy!
Quick question...Since it has been over 4 years since I disassembled my top frame from the car, I can't remember how it all goes back on. In what order do you have to put these items into the car?
Top frame brackets, piston/cylinders, top frame... It looks like you attached the cylinders to the brackets first, is that right? Then bolted the brackets into place?
 
I'm glad to hear vinegar has worked for you guys. It has never produced the results I was looking for. I use nothing but Evap-O-Rust now.
 
Discussion starter · #665 ·
Several of my friends also into older '30s car like myself have also had good results with a molasses/water mix in a vat. Apparently it's pretty cheap to buy, lasts a long time when covered and is gentle on parts. The parts I've seen come out looking very clean.
I heard that molasses eats rust. I never tried it though. Molasses also kills fire ants.
 
Discussion starter · #666 ·
Great work Buddy!
Quick question...Since it has been over 4 years since I disassembled my top frame from the car, I can't remember how it all goes back on. In what order do you have to put these items into the car?
Top frame brackets, piston/cylinders, top frame... It looks like you attached the cylinders to the brackets first, is that right? Then bolted the brackets into place?
I had the same problems. I had to assemble the parts on a bench. I paint marked the parts and used tape to identify which part fit in what hole. I assembled the two sides that fold up on the bench.

The hydraulic cylinders need to be installed on the brackets before they are mounted on the car. The bottom most hose fitting on the cylinder points up.
Slide the cylinder/bracket assembly in from the bottom of the brackets that are welded to the car.

Next install the folding side pieces. The side pieces bolts to the thick bracket that the hydraulic cylinders are mounted. Then bolt the bows that span the width of the car to the side pieces.
 
Thanks! I am eternally grateful for your help and your detailed posts! Keep em coming..You are helping humanity!
 
I had the same problems. I had to assemble the parts on a bench. I paint marked the parts and used tape to identify which part fit in what hole. I assembled the two sides that fold up on the bench.

The hydraulic cylinders need to be installed on the brackets before they are mounted on the car. The bottom most hose fitting on the cylinder points up.
Slide the cylinder/bracket assembly in from the bottom of the brackets that are welded to the car.

Next install the folding side pieces. The side pieces bolts to the thick bracket that the hydraulic cylinders are mounted. Then bolt the bows that span the width of the car to the side pieces.
I just printed your instructions. I'm sure I'll need them once it's time to put the top back on.

Thanks!
 
Discussion starter · #669 ·
There really isn't much information about convertible tops on the internet.

Seal the Inside of the Doors

I have been jumping around on different small projects on the car. I have been waiting for critical parts from several parts suppliers. I could not finish the projects until I got the parts so I would jump to another one. Here is one.

I finished the outside of the door. I decided to finish the inside of the door so it will be ready for final sealer and paint. I seam sealed the outer skin where it folds around the door frame. I taped the area so the seam sealer will not be noticeable when the door is opened. I spread the seam sealer with my finger.
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This is how it looks with the tape removed.
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I also seam sealed the door skin fold along the bottom of the door. Some people say you should not seal the bottom of the door. The door drain slots are above this seam. I think the water that is in the inside of the door can flow out the drain and collect along this seam.
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I seam sealed the inside of the door along the front and back sides. There are also two valleys along the bottom of the door. Water can collect in the cracks instead of exiting out of the drain slots. I seam sealed the two depressions. I tried to divert the water to the drain holes.
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Previously, I primed the inside of the door with PPG DP40LF. I used a paint brush and applied Lizard Skin to the inside of the door. It flowed out smooth while it dried.
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Two of the fuzzy slots were punched wrong on the driver side door. The misaligned slots caused the fuzzy to sit wrong along the door. I used a flat file to enlarge hole.
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Discussion starter · #670 ·
Convertible Door Wedges

A convertible car flexes more than a coupe because it does not have a roof to stiffen the body. I guess GM added a band aid to the convertible. The band aid is a little wedge that is bolted to the door and the quarter panel jamb. When the door is closed, the two pieces of wedge contact each other and hold the top of the door in place so it does not rattle when the body flexes.

One half of the wedge is bolted to the door. My reproduction doors were predrilled for the wedges.
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My reproduction convertible quarter panels were not predrilled for the second half of the wedge. I closed the door and slipped the other side of the wedge between the door and quarter panel jamb. I taped the quarter panel side of the wedge in position.
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When the two parts of the wedge overlapped, I opened the door and drilled two holes in the quarter panel. I screwed the second half of the wedge to the quarter panel jamb.
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When the door is closed, the two wedge pieces should touch. If they don’t touch, there are some shims that can be inserted on the door side. There is a specification that the two should touch 1/32” (whatever that means). All I know if I added too many shims and slammed the door, the door took a lot of effort to reopen it. The driver side took two shims, the passenger side did not need any shims.
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Discussion starter · #671 ·
Cleaning the Window Regulators

My four window regulators were dirty and rusty. They needed to be fixed. My first impulse is to break out my oxygen/acetylene torch and cut them up and then beat them with a hammer. Then I thought about welding something to them. None of these actions would accomplish much. I haven’t used my sandblaster recently. I could clean them with 90 psi air and Black Beauty coal slag. I think my sandblaster would blow off what was left of the galvanizing coating and the plastic rollers would end up in my neighbor’s yard. I needed to stop thinking like a bull in a china closet and start thinking of more gentle methods. Then I thought what would Mr. Darrell (cook_dw) do in a situation like mine? For those of y’all that are not familiar with Mr. Darrell’s build project, he restores parts that I would have thrown away and makes them look like new.

My regulators were coated with 50+ year old grease and dirt. The galvanized metal was rusted in some areas.
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I soaked them in gasoline. The gas dissolved the grease and the dirt that was imbedded in the grease. At $2.00 dollars a gallon, gas is a cheap solvent. The second photo below show a regulator after being cleaned with gas.
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Then I soaked the regulators in Evapo-Rust. This got rid to the surface rust. It is now easy to see where the galvanization coating is worn off. The regulators had some “brown paint” on them. Lacquer thinner removed the paint.
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I painted them to help keep them from rusting again. I cleaned the bolts and painted them black.
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Discussion starter · #677 ·
Thank for the encouragement.

Installation of the Convertible Top Weather-strip

Rebuilding the window regulators was actually related to the installation of the convertible top. After the installation of the metal skeleton of the top, the windows need to be fitted. The windows and convertible frame should be adjusted before the cloth top is installed.

I temporarily installed the weather strip to the convertible frame. I did not glue them in place. The brand I used was Metro Soft Seal strips. The two pieces that install on the A pillars do not have a metal clip imbedded in them like the original. The original ones also have two spiral wires inside the rubber to help stiffen the piece. The photos below show the L shaped metal piece that was in the original weather-strip and the wires.
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I cleaned up the bracket that the gasket fits into. There was a piece of black rubber like tape that fits between the bracket and the windshield molding. I replace it with foam tape. I loosely installed the bracket onto the car with two screws. The bracket is loose so when I roll up the window, I can adjust the weather-strip to the correct position. The holes in the bracket are very large so it has a lot of adjustment. My build project has taken so long that a cat has moved into my car.
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I used dishwashing soap to temporally get the gasket in place. I used a rounded putty knife to push the rubber in place.
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I labeled the old weather strip pieces when I took apart the convertible top frame. They install with some self-tapping wide head screws. The Metro weather strip mounting holes are slotted like the originals. I have read that some reproductions are drilled with round holes. The slots are there so the installer can adjust the rubber to fit correctly. The adjacent pieces need to be aligned perfectly so they form one continuous line. If they are not aligned, the glass will have an air gap between it and the rubber. This weather-strip looks exactly like the originals.
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There is a piece of molding that fits to the side of the convertible top cylinder joint. It is behind the quarter window. The pen in the photos below show its location.
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I tried to install the quarter panel U shaped seals. The Metro seals were steel reinforced like the originals. The driver side did not fit. It was not the fault of the seal. The quarter panel was bent wrong. I had to bend the metal and re-drill the screw holes.
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I welded the rip in the metal I created bending the metal.
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It fits like it should now. The passenger side fit ok.
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I dissolved the old convertible header latches. I bought new ones and installed them. They are needed to align the convertible top so the windows and weather-strip can be adjusted. I had to bend the header molding to get them to fit right.
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The doors were predrilled for the outer fuzzy weather strip. The actual fuzzy is not drilled. It was a little difficult to drill through the fuzzy and hit the door hole.
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Discussion starter · #678 ·
Installation of the Window Brackets Part 1

The door regulator uses several different bolts that are the same thread. I took photos of the original door to show where the different bolts.
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My quarter window glasses are two different colors. One is clear and the other has a green tint. I never noticed this until I put them side by side. I ordered two new quarter glasses. If you mail order your glass, make sure the company has a good return policy. I am on my third glass for the driver side. Two of them broke during shipment. The third one was made by a different manufacturer than I specified. Jegs keeps shipping new glass and I keep returning them on their nickel.
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All the windows have brackets that are bolted to the holes in the glass. The fasteners screw together and require a special tool to remove them. I made my own tool. I used a piece of 3/16” steel and drilled two holes in it. I inserted two roll pins in the holes. The tool can be turned with a locking grip pliers.

The fasteners should be tightened with only 6 foot-pounds of torque.
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Some of the fasteners were so rusted that I had to drill them out.
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The bottom roller assembly for the quarter windows were too far gone. They were just too rusted to salvage and the spring was broken. I ordered new bottom quarter window assemblies. I learned that the OER reproduction assembly’s springs do not work. Please read this post if you are going to order this part for your car.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/12-body-shop/424770-oer-quarter-window-roller-attachment-assembly.html

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The door windows have the same type of brackets.
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Some of the door glass brackets had a long bolt through them and they were rusted. I had to cut the bolt off in order to drill out the bracket. I covered the glass with rags so the sparks from the cutting wheel would not etch the glass.
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http://i1146.photobucket.com/albums/o522/psmith1111/pass door/pass door 69_zpssdrtwwtn.jpg
 
Discussion starter · #679 ·
Installation of the Window Brackets Part 2

There are two guide plates Inside the door. The door glass has a plastic ball that rubs against the guide plates when widow is rolled up. My originals were rubbed down to the bare metal. The reproductions are not the same shape as the originals.
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The reproduction guide plates came with screws. They were wood screws. The wood screws would not hold the guide plates to the door panels. I cut some scrap plastic that I placed behind the door so the screws have something to bit into. I threw away the wood screws and used on pan head self-taping screws.
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The reproduction guide plate hooks on the bottom fits on the original door ledge. It did not fit on the reproduction door. I bent the new guide plate. I found out later, this was the wrong thing to do.
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I installed the door handles and keyed locks. The door handle did not fit the first try. I enlarged the larger hole and enlarged a screw hole. I had to cut the door handle push button rod. There was a big difference in the amount that I had to cut off on the passenger and driver side. The door handle push button rod should be cut so that it pushes on the door latch mechanism about ¼” when the button is not pressed. If I cut it too short then the door latch and rod might rattle while the car is driven down the road.
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Below is a photo of the window mechanism laid out how it should fit in the door and quarter window.
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I put Anti Seize on the quarter window adjustment screws. Originally the bolts were so rusty that I was afraid that I would shear off the bolts when I turned them. I had to soak them in Evapo-Rust for a week before they would start turning. I used chain grease on the sector gear mechanism that are on the regulators. The regulators get dirty and chain grease is made to operate in a dirty environment. I used white lithium grease everywhere else.
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Discussion starter · #680 · (Edited)
Installation of the Window Brackets Part 3

I installed the window regulator and glass in the passenger door. I rolled up the window. It became very difficult to roll up when the plastic ball that was bolted to the window contacted the guide plate. The window moved toward the interior of the car. There was a huge gap between the window fuzzy and the glass. I can stick my finger between the glass and the fuzzy.
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I took the guide plate off and the window operated smoothly. The gap went away. I installed the driver side glass. It also had the same problem although it was not as bad.

I messed with the window for two weekends trying it to get it right. The problem and solution was obvious but I could not see the forest for the trees. I measured everything. I removed and reinstalled the window assembly many times thinking that I installed the regulator incorrectly.
The reproduction door was not bent properly where the guide plates bolt onto. It is impossible to bend the metal because it is in such a tight area. I had to think of a way to bend the metal.

I took the guide plates off and bent them back to the original shape. I cut some 3/16” steel backing plates and tapped two 8-32 holes in the plate.
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The 3/16” backing plate was placed behind the door ledge where the guide plate bolts onto. I screwed two 8-32 machine bolts through the guide plate, the door ledge and final through the steel plate. The photos below show the backing plate installed with the screws snugged up. Notice the gap between the door and the plate. The gap is there because the door is not bent correctly.
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I continued to tighten the two bolts. This caused the door metal to bend. I took the guide plate off. The photo below shows how much the metal had to be bent. The two screw holes were almost touching the ruler before I started.
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The glass touches the fuzzy now. The window does not bind when it is rolled up.
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I guess one should adjust the window to fit the A pillar first since that is the fixed part on the car. The back of the convertible top is adjustable. At first the door window was lower in the front. The window regulator has an upper roller cam that can be adjusted with slots in the door frame. I pulled up on the front part of the window and then tighten the two bolts.

All the other bolts were loose and I rolled up the window. I moved the top of the window so that it would fit in the slot of the weather-strip that was at the top of the window. Then I tightened the bolts on the door.

I installed the quarter window slide through the access panel on the car. While the slide was still loose, I slid the glass through the top window slot. I got the two to fit together so the rollers slide up and down on the metal slide.
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I inserted the regulator through the access hole and bolted it up.
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The top two adjustment screws fit into slots that look like the number 7. They allow the bottom of the glass to be moved forward or backward. They also adjust the bottom of the glass so that it rubs against the fuzzy. The bottom adjustment screw moves the top of the window in and out.
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I rolled up both windows. The driver side had a huge gap between the two. The passenger side glass overlapped each other.
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