A true black is the absence of any color, so, since you can't take something from nothing, black is just black.

 

Hmmmmm... I thought an absence of any color would be clear.

 

Black is the combination of all colors, right?

As far as there being different blacks, I think I know what he's asking. But I would think black paint is black paint... it just matters what type and how it's layed out and cleared.
The paint folks here will know!

 

my wife the artist says Black is absent color, I dont understand that myself but she doesnt understand a carb. either.
There are satin black, gloss black, etc, etc. and shades of black which means something is added but I dont know what 'original' start up black is. Is there an industry number for the basic black?
Even Victoria Secret has its idea of black too

 

Interesting question. Aside from gloss levels, some blacks have more pigment (lampblack?) and cover easier.

 

Believe it or not, all blacks are not the same. Some actually appear to have a brown cast in certain lighting conditions. The differences are minimal, but there is a slight difference. You can see the difference when comparing PPG's DBU basecoat with the less expensive OMNI line. Both are black, but there is a difference. By the way, PPG's DBU is a nice deep black, as is the black House of Kolor Offers.

 

It certainly doesn't matter in this discussion but black is the total "absense" of color. I have read and read "What is color" and I still don't quite get it. Black "absorbs" all light waves, so none reflect back to you?

Anyway, as Bob pointed out, MOST CERTAINLY not all blacks are black. However the difference is not minimal, they can be MILES apart. There is no color in my opinion that looks worse than black when mismatched. Even the toners from one company to another will be "blacker".

Most black "formulas" will contain reds, blues, or yellows so the color will more closely match the factory paint on your GM, Ford, Toyota or what ever.

To get a truer black the pigments have to be ground more, thus the cost is more. I have not seen it in person but from what I understand a small paint company called Southern Polyurethanes makes a black base that is said to be the truest black available. They also make a super polyurethane clear as well, and some polyurethane primers. So you could use all their products from the bottom up. Now, I have never used them, but I have heard from some people who I respect their opinion that they are some of the best. They have some limited RED red colors coming out soon as well.

http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/index.htm

 

All black is not the same. When black is mixed from a paint formula it is usually mixed from one or two different base blacks.One is ususally a pitch black,the other can be a brownish black. From there other colors can be added,like blues and reds. If you painted two panels,each with a different black, they would each look black.But if you put them side by side they would look like night and day. A few years back i stripped and repainted a hood on an S-10 blazer.I had it off the truck.So I didnt check the paint code i just repainted it with regular old 99 black. Well when i put the hood back on it looked brown compared to the fenders. So to answer your question, NO. All blacks are not the same. If you want the blackest black,you should go with a BMW or Mercedes black.

 

This has no meaning to the original also but I rarely get a chance to contribute something I actually know. I dont know how car paint works but generally black is the addition of all color. Pigments work the opposite of light meaning they are a additive medium. To get black you add all colors together. Actually if you mix all colors together exaclty right it is a dark brown but to solve this mixing problem people use pigments which already have colors such as charcoal for a black and add a medium such as oil to hold it. This is true for artist paint but could be completely different from car paint with all the synthetics we have.
Light is the opposite in that when you add all colors you get white and the reverse you get black or the preception of it.

 

Wow! Thanks guys. I just noticed "black" cars in the day don't always look the same. My simple mind can't totally understand the absence of color physics but will accept it as fact. Now to really LOOK at those BMWs and Mercedes paint jobs!

 

If you combine the three primary colors (red, blue, yellow), you will get white, not black or brown. Maybe, Mrs. Click can try this on her palette as an experiment.

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~efortin/thesis/html/Color_perception.shtml

But, none of this has anything to do with degrees of blackness in paint.

 

I think you mean the primaries of light which are red blue green when added together are white. When you add pigments or paint primaries (yellow, red, blue)together you do get a dark color such are black or brown.
Light does play an important part in how we preceive color. But yes to make your car look as deep a black as possible they would need to develop a paint that absorbes as much light as possible.

 

It's neither here nor there but that's what I was getting at..... colors of light and colors of solids act totally differently.

Mix all the different colors of paint in a shop together in a cup and you get black. Take your kids Crayons and scribble them all together on a piece of paper.... black.
While working in the duplicator\copier industry, I learned first hand that by mixing magenta, cyan and yellow toners, you got black.
Light is a whole other ball of wax.

 

I have to say, this explaination from the link John posted has totally cleared it up for me, thanks John.

A Surprise about "black and white"!

Light that is emitted from a lamp or a star and looks white, is really the combination of all colors in that light. There is really no "white" color and no "black" color! Emitted light looks "white" when the source emits all colors. We conventionally think of color as six major hues - red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and violet. These words you are reading, look "black" because the light in this computer screen is shining three beams of separate colors, which together, make light look white, but in the places where these letters appear, no light is shining. You are really looking at holes in the light!

What about light that is reflected from an object? Unlike the lamp or the star, the object isn't the source of the light, but rather, reflects the light that shines on it from some source. That light is a little different, when it comes to the story of "black and white". Since all the colors are falling on the object, the "black" is seen where all the colors are absorbed and "white" is seen where all the colors are reflected.

 

I do a lot with computer rgaphics for the printing industry. Computers use red gren blue in the monitors to produce light. When all are on, you end up with more or less white light. But white isn't always white either, depending on the color temperature and white point, could be bluish, or redish.

With printing inks, we use cyan, magenta, yellow and black. It's virtually impossible to get "black" from cmy, you always end up with brown. It's even hard to get gray with cmy, you have to juggle the percentages, they don't end up equal when you have a true nuetral gray.

Black is jus plain black. And ya, it looks different, depending on "who's" black it is.

 

black is black. there isnt any different color of black, just made up names like tuxedo black, its just black.

 

The red shirt you're wearing, becomes a black shirt when you turn off the lights. lol, no seriously, colored objects arent colored, the light reflecting from them is what makes it colored, so the red shirt actually becomes a "black" shirt when the lights are off, because it is not reflecting any light/color. I'd have to say however, back on the question, that there are different 'blacks'. There is probably one true black, but who knows. I think what all of the posts are saying is:
Use the same black on all parts of the car, and your most likely after a "deep" black, which has more to do with the prep work, paint and clear then the 'shade' of black.

 

Originally posted by tman:
black is black. there isnt any different color of black, just made up names like tuxedo black, its just black.

You need to read the posts better. There is very clear explainations from a number of people that "black" is most certainly NOT "Black". In the "old days" when you got a black car in the shop you went over and grabbed your "Pitch black" DuPont 99S (as I remember, that was a hundred years ago, I think) and shot it.

These days you have a "black" section in your spray out card library with ten or twenty examples of "black" and you have to compare them to the car to find the best one to use. Matching "Black" is NO different than matching silver, blue, gold, or any other color these days.

As I said, if you look at a formula for a "black" for a 2004 Chevy and a formula for a 2004 Chrysler you will find that they are different.

The "Formula" is the "recipe" for the color. There are about 100 or more toners in the average paint mixing bank PPG, DuPont, Sherwin Willams, etc. Your average color, be it red metallic or white or yes, black, will use four or five or up to eight or more of these "toners".

The GM color may have a red toner in the formula, where the Chrysler one does not. THUS, when sprayed and compared the GM "Black" looks redder next to the Chrysler. I am not talking about a little different. If you were to paint a door on a 2004 Chevy truck the wrong black, it will stand out like a sore thumb!

Now, I haven't even gotten into "alternates or "variants" of the "Same" color! There could be five or six or even a dozen DIFFERENT "Blacks" that was sprayed on 2004 GM cars all carrying the same paint code!!

No, tman,"Black" is most certainly not "Black".

 

I totally agree to what MARTINSR says. I've been in the automotive refinish trade for almost 20 years. There are many, many shades of black.... whites have even more.

-Wayne

 

yes shades of black

 

Ive read the post clearly MARTINSR and I just dont agree or believe there are shades of black. If it has any other shade in it (a little red it may have a brown hue, a little white it has a gray look. Those are not TRUE black. True black, as stated in the thread earlier is absence of those other looks, or hues, or tints, etc. We can call something short or true black by a name "deep black, abyss black, tuxedo black. Lots of different sheens...typically high gloss looks "darker" than flat. Whats in a name??? There is only one true black. Kevin

 

There are different colors of black just like their are reds, blues, yellows etc.
PPG has two black standard tints in their deltron line.
9700 and 9800. the 9700 has a brownish hue to it, 9800 has a blue hue.
When applied under the SAME clearcoat both 9700 and 9800 have the same sheen but yet are different hues/tints of black.
Black is NOT black anymore then red is red

 

If there are differnet shades of black (and I agree) then black is a color just like any other color. I have to stick to my post that an absence of color is clear, just my opinion.

What color is your car? Black
What color are your shoes? Black
What color is your shirt? Black

Black is a color. Some of you guys must think way above me.

 

Tman and Wayne said it the best, black and white are not considered primary colors, they are shades, yellow,blue,green and red are the only primary colors, any color or varient can be made from these primary colors. Reminds me of Christmas lights, red, yellow, blue,green, red yellow, blue, green...

 

Originally posted by jus4funn68:
Ive read the post clearly MARTINSR and I just dont agree or believe there are shades of black. If it has any other shade in it (a little red it may have a brown hue, a little white it has a gray look. Those are not TRUE black. True black, as stated in the thread earlier is absence of those other looks, or hues, or tints, etc. We can call something short or true black by a name "deep black, abyss black, tuxedo black. Lots of different sheens...typically high gloss looks "darker" than flat. Whats in a name??? There is only one true black. Kevin

Keven, I just don't know what to say. I worked for Sherwin Willams for five years.Color was my life every working day. I have painted since before there the carbon was removed from the black in the late seventies. MANY other people with many years of painting experiance have posted in this thread with exactly the same response.

Go get a job at a body shop painting, you will learn the truth real fast, with REDOS.

There really is NO "true black" anymore. The point of the thread is "are blacks the same", well, they are not. Go find a car you think is black, get the color code off of it and buy some paint. Spray it out and go around the block comparing it with other "blacks". Compare it with non auto related "Blacks". Ink for instance is VERY blue.

We are talking about the "degrees" of black, true. IF there is a true black anywhere fine. But 99.9% of the "Black" cars you see are NOT "black". As I said, southernpolyurethanes.com is a place to go. Ask Barry, the owner of the company about his black base coat. It is reportedly the "Blackest black" base (or equal at least to the blackets black) available. It is still not BLACK. If he tells you different, I will eat my hat. He worked VERY HARD to get it as black as he did. If it is regarded as a true black with no shades of other colors what so ever, it is because he worked so hard to make it BLACKER than any other "Black". Give him a call