I don't believe any of it is asbestos. However, don't eat it or bust it into dust and breath it just in case. Honestly, if you put a dust mask (just as you should in any dusty envirornment) on and peel it up and toss it in the garbage you will have no problems.

Do you know how much asbestos you would have to be exposed to for there to be any cause for alarm at all? I don't either but it would be hundreds of times more than you could get peeling out that padding to even be measurable.

Brian

 

It is probably not asbestos but a standard throw-a-way mask won't filter out asbestos fibers. Get a good approved mask that filters out all types of dusts including asbestos. The asbestos fibers are hook like and attach themselves to the linings in your lungs and NEVER release.

 

and wet it with a little water. i know some of the glues and asphaltic coating (esp. under the car) are likely asbestos. preferrable to do it outside also.

 

Thanks for the replies.
In case the question comes up again, I took a sample to a lab and determined that it does NOT contain asbestos.
Take care,
Scott

 

Scott,

Thanks for the info.

The 1/4" or so sheet glued under the roof of a '69 sure looks like it contains asbestos to me. Has it been determined not to be?

In my opinion you can't be too careful with asbestos. There is no "safe" exposure amount. I use an approved double carbon filter half mask any time I have a question.

Doug

 

Scott,

I use an approved double carbon filter half mask any time I have a question.

Doug

Carbon won't do a thing to stop asbestos. You need to use a HEPA filter. They're the pretty magenta colored ones. You can get them at home depot, grainger, etc.

 

Doug,
In my archive searches, I found that someone took a sample of the material under the roof to a lab and found it was NOT asbestos also.

I read that some of the undercoating MAY contain asbestos, so if you do remove it, it is best to chemically strip it so as to create the least amount of breakup/dust.

The environmental lab I went to told me that alot of the mastics used in older cars contain asbestos, so once again, chemical removal would be the best way to remove anything like this.

eville is right that the only type of respirator to use when removing asbestos material is a HEPA type. They are pink/purple and you can get them at local big box hardware stores in either the tool area or the paint aisle. Also, the material I originally found under the floor asphalt is fiberglass, it can be dangerous as well when turned into dust...wear a mask when removing it.

All, please be careful when working on your car. You want to be around to enjoy it!!!

BTW, for fun I called GM and asked them where I could find asbestos in a 1967 Camaro...a rep called me back two days later and told me they "didn't have any records that far back." My guess is that after all the asbestos lawsuits, the records are probably all in the lawyers hands...

 

I'm actually a part of the asbestos industry so I find all of this topic a little more interesting than some. Back around '94 or so I got some original information from GM about the '68 camaro, i forget where exactly I got it from, but it was from GM like an archive division or something, it cost $5 or maybe even free. It included all sorts of dimension, and marketing materials , etc. Anyway, the some of the marketing materials said the undercoating was asbestos (remember this was back in the day when asbestos was still a good thing according to the consumer). I'm sure that most of the glues/adhesives that were originally used (interior adhesives, seam sealers, undercoating, etc) were all asbestos.

 

Thanks for the concern on the filters. I looked at mine and they have an NIOSH on them, no HEPA. When I originally bought them the package said approved for asbestos. I'm not really sure where I got the carbon filter idea in my head. Maybe the cartridges have some carbon in them, I'm not sure.

I'm a little more interested in this topic also as I had a good friend die of asbestos lung cancer at the age of 43. He didn't know where he got exposed to it. He worked in the grocery business most of his life.

I also read someplace that the undercoating, (such as on the inside of the doors) has asbestos in it.

Doug

 

I spent most of my career dealing with a product line that was initially marketed as a replacement for asbestos. Now it's considered by W. H. O. to be in the same class.

The asbestos has to be airborne to be potentially dangerous. Keep it wet, remove it gingerly, and wear a face mask that is properly fit to your face. Wear a tyvec suit. The asbestos and the clothes must be double bagged in an approved haz mat bag, and disposed of in an approved hazardous waste landfill.

 

NIOSH certifies all respirators. If anyone has an old MSHA one, time to replace it. MSHA stopped certifying respirators several years ago.
It should be magenta (purple/pink) and say P-100 (particulate 100%) or don't wear it for dust or asbestos.
N100 won't do any good if there is any oil in the air.
95, 99, etc. are no better than dust masks and shouldn't be worn for asbestos.
http://www.northsafety.com/usa/en/bs_departments.html?DID=711&CP=3

 

Checked my cartridges and they have R53HE-P100.
good to see the P-100 on there.......

 

Ok guys, you two that have been in the "asbestos" industry educate me. I am all for protecting yourself, believe me, I think about it everyday.

There is no reason to expose ourselves to anything that will shorten our lives.

But I think we are putting way to much into peeling up some insulation and tossing it in the garbage.

What are the risks of a one or two time exposure to the levels of asbestos that "could" be in this insulation, Relative and absolute risks?

I had a few cigarettes (two or three) back in 1968 did these exposures increase my likelyhood of getting lung cancer? Sure they did, but it is so small it is unmeasurable.

As far as I see, the exposure to the solvents from painting or cleaning that we do everyday on these cars will WAY overweigh the absulute risk of pulling up some insulation.

PLEASE don't beat me up saying I am pissing on the dangers of asbestos exposure. Far from it, if I were to remove all the asbestos shingles off my house (I once planned on doing this) I would take it very seriously. However, "The asbestos and the clothes must be double bagged in an approved haz mat bag, and disposed of in an approved hazardous waste landfill." I think this is WAY, WAY over doing it. We are not talking about a person doing this for a living day in and day out, we are talking about a hobbiest who is doing this once or twice in his lifetime.

What are the comparitive risks in exposure to asbestos removing this insulation and exposure to a car accident driving to the "approved hazardous waste landfill"?

I am not being a smart ***, educate me.

Brian

 

The paper mill I work in is very old and they have been removing asbestos insulation from steam and hot water pipes for a couple years. They brought in professionals to do it and they used the tyvek suits and full face resperators and rubber gloves duct taped to the suit so no fibers would enter them.
They would seal off the area with clear plastic and had an air lock area so they could shower off the fibers from their suit before they removed them then put them in the same yellow hazmat bags as the insulation and they even had speacial garbage dumpsters for those yellow bags only.
All the insulation they removed had to be wet down first before they touched it so it didnt break up and become airborne. These guys looked like astronauts walking around. Safety with asbestos is a big deal where I work and they educate us on a regular basis on the dangers so we dont forget.

 

But again, we are talking about guys who are "living" covered with asbestos everyday! Compared to my smoking analogy, it would be like comparing a guy who smoked five packs a day for years to a me who had three cigarettes in sixth grade.

I know it is dangerous, but what are the absolute risks of a one or two time exposure to peeling up some insulation?

One of the reasons I ask is I have done this many times! I have pulled up the insulation in vintage cars a heck of a lot more than those Mariburos I dragged back behind the class room with Ann Alexander. What are the REAL risks of a one or two time exposure?

Brian

 

I would say the risks are very small but why take risks? I regret drilling out truck brake shoe rivets to reline brakes 25 years ago because of the possiblity lung disease. I don't want any more dust in my lungs especially asbestos.

 

From what I was taught at work it could take up to twenty years to feel the effects of asbestosis. These tiny sharp fibers get imbedded in your lungs and your body tries to build up scar tissue around them and if you have enough of it in your lung then your broncial passages will evntually get clogged up and oxygen to blood exchange becomes less effective , so it would take quite a bit of exposure to it to have a deadly effect Im sure compared to a guy who changed a few brake shoes years ago. I do know smokers have way more of a chance of coming down with it.
I'll do some research tomorrow at work and will post what I find out.

 

Clearly, you could put removed asbestos materials in your trashcan, and be done with it...the trashman would never know. Also clearly, the lawyers made a bigger deal of asbestos, than it deserved. However, the danger is real, even for light exposure. Asbestos fibers have a "hooked" end that allows it to easily be snagged in the avoli of the lungs. t is very durable, and is not easily broken down by body fluids. When broken they do not shear, but break longitudinally, (smaller diameter and higher aspect ratio are harder for the body to expel.

Asbestos shingles are probably the safest form, as the fibers are all contained within the cement. Only abraision or breaking can release the fibers.

Whether or not you choose to take the danger seriously, is entirely up to you. But wreckless disposal in a way that endangers others, is irresponsible.

Is driving to the landfil more dangerous?...I don't know the statistics. Statistically, it is safer to play Russian Roulette with a six shooter than a two shot derringer, but I'm not playing with either one.

As a side story, I was in a power plant one time on one project, while a different contractor was doing some asbestos abatement on a steam valve. They had built a double door enclosure, and the lone worker was dressed as jr68 described. I had borrowed the contractor's keys to move his truck. When I returned his keys, he was inside the enclosure, with his mask off, smoking a cigarette! He obviously felt the risk was low.

 

Well they said the occasional exposure should be nothing to worry about its the frequent exposure that is harmful since the accumulation of many particles in the lungs is where you get into trouble.
But you can get HEPA filters even in the disposible type at building centers like Lowes , Home Depot etc. or the cartriges for your dust and vapor mask at a welding equipment outlet locally. If you can score the disposable tyvec suit it would be a bonus since you dont track these fibers all over the house later for your kids to inhale.

 

Well they said the occasional exposure should be nothing to worry about its the frequent exposure that is harmful since the accumulation of many particles in the lungs is where you get into trouble.

That's what I was thinking.

I can not stress enough, I am not pee peeing on the seriousness of this. What I am trying to do is put it into perspective.

Your diet of bacon cheese burgers has MUCH, MUCH more to do with your health than pulling up this insulation.

I am the first one (Behind Sevtchevelle) to preach protect youself. And I am still saying it. But this thread turned into a doomsday, you'll die tomorrow if you touch that stuff sort of thing.

Brian

 

Sounds alot like that great scene from Butch Cassidy. Sundance won't jump into the gorge because he can't swim. Butch says, "Hell, the fall is going to kill ya."

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him wear his HEPA filter.

If the EPA catches you throwing the asbestos in the garbage, they won't care to much about your perspective.

 

They will be pretty busy handcuffing all the people restoring cars from the fifties and sixties. And the funeral homes will be busy too.

Brian