Yeah, I noticed it too. It is really bad when you see a "Z/28" being sold as original, with air conditioning, a 10 bolt, and a column shift automatic.

 

Originally posted by sicsD8:
Is it just me or is every other 69 posted on e-bay a "Z-28 clone"?? Nearly all of these cars have 350 motors and nearly none of the z-28 options. My personal feeling is that to be considered a clone car, the drivetrain should be that of the car being cloned as well. Emblems and stripes merely have the exterior appearance of a specific model, but none of the true "guts" of what the owner is trying to emulate. These cars should simply be advertised as what they really are. In the past this issue was easy to overlook, but with the price of clone cars suddenly skyrocketing, all it takes is a grill emblem and an SS gas cap and suddenly your car is worth an extra 3-5k. It's all wrong.

Sorry, just venting I guess.

It's not just you. At the risk of someone getting mad at me for expressing my opinion, (which I always own) I do not like a cloned vehicle, even if it is done "correctly." I see these Yenko clones on Ebay, and while they are usually a nice "copy" they are still fakes.

 

I've said (typed) a dozen times... there's more SS RS or Z's on the road today than chevy built 38 years or so ago... and yes, ity's sickening.

hmmm.... does this mean I hafta take off the grill, gas cap, and steering wheel SS emblems that a previous owner put on my ragtop?

 

You all are getting to wrapped up in this. Drive 'em, who cares what the numbers are.

 

I have no problem with a real clone. Building a real clone takes a lot of time and research to get the correct parts and build the car the way it was supposed to be built. What kills me is what the cars sell for. Seeing an original 307 X-11 car sell for 35-40K because it's a Yenko clone is pretty sickening....AND it's the people that see these clones sell for 35-40K that say hey I am going to sell my car as a clone and expect the same kind of money. So now every other car you see is a supposed "Clone".

 

Originally posted by Heretic:
You all are getting to wrapped up in this. Drive 'em, who cares what the numbers are.

 

A clone is still a clone and will never be an "original" so why go through all the work to make a real "fake" car anyway? Who makes the rules on which "clone" is correct and which is not? This topic seems to come up from time to time and I just don't get it. I don't care how fancy you cut a piece of glass it will never really be a diamond.

Build them how you like them and drive them. Number cars are only good for collectors/investors other than that numbers don't really matter. It has become a big game, if people are silly enough to pay top dollar for a "clone" then they get what they deserve, there are a lot of resources out there to do your homework. I still don't think anyone should sell a clone or emblemed car as an original and I know there are jerks out there that try to do that.

 

Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Heretic:
You all are getting to wrapped up in this. Drive 'em, who cares what the numbers are.

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

Originally posted by Mr. C:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by HwyStarJoe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Heretic:
You all are getting to wrapped up in this. Drive 'em, who cares what the numbers are.

</font>[/QUOTE]

</font>[/QUOTE]

 

A clone is still a clone and will never be an "original" so why go through all the work to make a real "fake" car anyway?

I dunno....I'm kind of having fun piecing together a vintage 69 427. Finding the 69 dated 512 block, 840 heads and 163 intake was fun. It's especially fun finding deals on them and not paying ridiculous prices. It was also cool finding a factory hugger orange/white standard four speed X44 norwood car. Put it all together and it's the closest I'll ever get to having a COPO or Yenko in my shop!!

 

I've seen folks dump 100 large on a 1969 "plain jane" coupe (it looks like brand new from the factory) and I've seen 1/2 a$$ed Z-28 "restorations". It just doesn't matter. Somewhere, somehow, there's gonna be someone with a nicer Camaro. I have a 69 coupe (plain jane) that I have restified the best I can with what I've got. I get plenty of "thumbs up" and waves. I added spoilers, cowl induction hood, z-stripes, and a few other goodies because I think they look cool on the car! I have gotten other people telling me to "keep it stock" etc. If it were a "badged" car, it would take me forever to find all of the little overpriced parts to make it nice and then I would go nuts! Besides,the 307 is not the most appealing engine that GM ever built. I just like driving the thing whenever I can

Dano

 

paulm,
Maybe you took that the wrong way. If that is how YOU like to build YOUR cars I don't have a problem with it. I know a lot of people that like hashing through the swap meets looking for "diamonds". Personally I can't stand doing that. I am sure your cars are nice but, no matter how much money and time you spend on them they are still clones. Nothing wrong with that it's just a fact. They will still be worth more than the type of cars I like to build and drive.

It's all a matter of what you enjoy, that's the bottom line. This is a "HOBBY" so there are no "rules". That's why I don't get why people get upset about "clones" if you don't like them then don't buy, build, or drive one. That was my whole point.

 

Originally posted by MrDanB:
Besides,the 307 is not the most appealing engine that GM ever built.

Dano

No doubt - that is why my convert is still badged 307 with a flat hood and no spoilers. I actually kinda like the plainJane look - just not the performance. Grown men still drool over my whimpy-*** 307!

 

Royce I don't think that I took it the wrong way. I was just responding to the question that you posed as to WHY someone would want to build a clone.

Like you said it's whatever makes you enjoy the hobby. I was just expressing the fact that I am enjoying tracking down parts to turn that X44 camaro into a 427 car using as many real parts that it would have come with that I can find (for reasonable prices ).

The bottom line is that I really like working on these cars!!! I also really like driving them as I used my 69 ragtop as a daily driver for nearly two years!!


Getting back to the topic at hand....I agree if a car is to be called a clone then it should be as close as possible and fender emblems or a couple of stickers do not qualify a car as a clone!!

 

I guess my point wasn't whether or not cloned cars are good or bad, they are just a fact of life these days. My point was now that the auction houses are getting top dollar for a corrrect clone, every joe-schmoe car lot is advertising their cars as clones when all the have is a few emblems (often incorrect and mis-placed at that!) and no real performance options of the car they are claiming they've cloned! Personally, I respect a correctly done clone. It takes tons of research and tedious work to track down all the components and fine detail items to make a correct copy of a rare car. It is probably much more gratifying to craft a quality clone than just handing a wad of bills to Barrett-Jackson. By trying to pass off a car with $100 worth of emblems and a set of stripes as a "clone" is giving the correctly built cars a bad rap. Just my .02.

 

That was my point, What is a clone? and Who decides what is correct or not? It leaves a lot to the builder to decide.

Since this "hobby" has become so much of a business, things have changed a lot. It makes business sense to attempt to pass a car off as a clone by adding emblems. A true "hobbyist" will see right through that. These badged cars are only an attempt to make money from those that either don't care or know any better. The effort Paul puts into his cars is EXCELLENT for the hobbyist but, not great if you are trying to make a fast buck. I would call Paul's car/s a replicate more than a clone. He is tracking down actual GM parts, etc... (that takes a lot of time, knowledge, and patience). To me a "clone" could be built using all aftermarket/repop parts.

[ 02-16-2005, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: camaroman7d ]

 

Paulm. Nice job on the 67 vert!!!

 

Thanks!!


Hey, check this out. I can't see anything COPO or Yenko about this car and yet it is being called a Yenko COPO clone:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=4528736265&rd=1

 

GUYS
As long as were in the neighborhood of this topic.
Have you noticed how many cars these days have origional documantion with them. I mean come on, POP,window sticker,origional invoice,and even a letter from "cousin Fred" when he bought the car.Why can't people thll it like it is. Anyway,that is my two cents worth.

Thanks,David

 

Wow- it's got the ultra-rare Yenko-COPO 327 engine!

This is exactly the type of car I'm talking about!!

THIS CAR HAS BEEN CAREFULLY CLONED AS A COPO YENKO CAMARO, WHICH INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING ITEMS: ALL YENKO EMBLEMS, ALL YENKO DECALS, TORQUE THRUSTS D'S, FIRESTONE RED LINE TIRES, ROSEWOOD STEERING WHEEL, SUN TACH, AND HURST SHIFTER WITH WHITE BALL 4 SPEED SHIFT KNOB.

It even has the Yenko white four speed shift knob!

I would have so much more respect for this car if it was just advertised for what it really is instead of all the bogus stats! It actually looks like a nice ride minus the Yenko decals. Don't get me wrong I'm not bagging on the car, how it was built, the yenko decals or any of that. Just the way it is being avertised as a "Yenko COPO clone"
Oh well, to each his own. I guess this is the land of the free after all.



[ 02-16-2005, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: sicsD8 ]

 

Oooops, my bad I didn't see the fender emblems/decals and the emblems/decals on the tail panel....

 

Originally posted by camaroman7d:
A clone is still a clone and will never be an "original" so why go through all the work to make a real "fake" car anyway? ...

Build them how you like them and drive them.

You answered your own question.

You get to build the car you want, and then drive it. Try that with a real Yenko, Motion, etc (I could care less about early Z-28's... big block all the way).

 

It is what it is!

 

there are so many different ways to look at this subject i will give one.
in 1981 i sold a 1969 ss big block 396 4 speed camaro gorgeous car for 4500.00 dollors. wife was pregnant i was a kid myself the car had to go period.23 years later i want my ss back only trouble is there now going for 20 large in ok shape so i did the next best thing i find the most solid car i could find (bodywise)
just happens to be a 307 pg and a 10 bolt pegleg.
ok so my goal is to build the car as close to my car as possible. so i rip out the entire drivetrain and replace it with a firebreathing drivetrain 383 m22 12bolt the whole nine.now its paint time am i gonna badge it and stripe it like my old car? yes. am i trying to fool anyone? no i just loved that car and i want it back and i guess this is as close as i will ever get. the clone thing just strikes a nerve with me
because there are alot of creeps out there trying to pass cars off for what there not theres plenty on ebay right now. but theres also guys building cars just because they like them.
and not trying to fool people or make money by beating someone. i can just remember this hobby being a whole lot different back then. not as rough around the edges

 

It's like plastic surgery for women... specifically the upper torso. Is it still what it is?

I don't think I would ever pay crazy dollars for an old car... I would build a high quality clone of it before I would ever go down that road. But then for me it's about the car, not about "investment".