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How do you tell reproduction from OEM sheet metal, and the winner is!

13K views 19 replies 7 participants last post by  MARTINSR  
#1 ·
This comes up every once in a while, just how do you tell good old original sheet metal from reproduction? Well the devil is in the details as they say. from outside, you can often tell there too just by the way the metal is folded or how a body line is made. But on the inside is always the easier way. Now, these examples are with one OEM (Original Equipment Manufacture or often called "OE") hood and one reproduction hood so it is a little limited but if you were to go to a swap meet and look at one of these close up areas on a repro hood offered by someone and check them all, you will find similar differences from OE. We are looking at a 66-67 Chevelle hood.

You also would need to do a little homework in that the OE hood you have may be a little different if made at a different plant or if it was made in later years as a replacement. But they are usually pretty close. I do have a replacement fender on my Gran Sport and it has a big part number tag spot welded to in the inside. I have never seen another like that. I left the tag because frankly I think it's cool.

But check out the differences in these two hoods.

The reproduction has the inner panel running all the way over hanging off the end of the corner. The hole looks like it was punched in the inner skin and outer skin when the pieces were made and the inside doesn't match in size or location. The OE one looks almost like the hole was drilled or punched after the two were attached. And check out how the inner skin doesn't go all the way to the edge. The lip on the front is also smaller and more defined. It's funny the lines like that are always softer and not as defined as the OE yet the "hem" (the folded edge of the skin onto the inners structure) is often a much tighter fold o the Repro than the OE)

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Check out how the corner in the back has a different folded hem. The OE has a angled cut then little folded edge for an inch or more before the corner where the repro has the angled cut back deep in the corner.

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Check out the little weak spot welds at the hood cushion reinforcement. The welds on the OE are huge compared. The edge of the reinforcement has a little lip running around the edge instead of just a fold like the reproduction. Another thing I noticed was that the edges and holes like the one in this reinforcement appear to be laser or plasma cut while the original is stamped out.

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Check out the gynormous welds in this area and there is no hole in the inner structure at the peak of the hood.

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I can not stress enough this is just what I found between these two hoods I happen to have to look at. But you will find similar differences between others. The sad part is after you know you can see the difference a block away, it will drive you nuts, sorry. But if you are out to get an original and you have an original look at these type of details and you should be good to go when looking at claimed OEM hoods in your search.

Brian
 
#3 ·
Very good stuff, yes and if they did it would be wrong in some way. The font of the stamp, the location, how hard it was stamped, something would be wrong.

That is the one thing you can count on with reproductions, it WILL be different. I am fascinated with these repro parts, do they have a friggin RULER in China? Did they ever have an original to go by or did they make the friggin part from a photo sent to them in a email?

I am not kidding you, the ONLY repro parts I will use are ones I can't find, and of course ones that don't age well like rubber. So on my Gran Sport over the 15 year restoration I ended up with two of a few things. And those two different reproductions will be very different one from the other. The most glaring was hilarious frankly. The window belt moulding/scraper thingies. OMG the two sets were COMPLETELY different, holes in the wrong place, clips or screws, toss the dice, location of rubbing blocks, length, OMG they were hideous! They were both "well know" brands bought from well known suppliers.

I combined the two to make a decent set with some mods like putting the original rubbing blocks on. But they still don't match the original where you can see them, at the chrome bead on top.

Honestly, do they have a ruler?

Brian
 
#5 ·
LOLOL, Touché :D You are correct sir, and I am possibly jumping to conclusions. But in all honesty I was discussing this with someone a while ago and they told me that they had bought a cheapie measuring tape made over seas and some goofy things happened where they measured a board or a cabinet or something I forget off. The had someone else cut measuring with their tape and the length was wrong! You guessed it they put the tapes beside each other and the cheapie was off quite a bit! The further you went down the tape the more it was off!

But without a doubt you are right in that the purchaser here should be quality checking their stuff so they are the end to blame. But as I have said before, the reproduction industry doesn't seem to be that concerned for the simple reason people are BUYING this crap! And I was one of them, what do I do? Go find NOS? Make my own from scratch, no I take it, I buy the crap and suck it up and make it work just like everyone else. It's a joke and I am part of the reason. If everyone stopped buying the crap and someone set a friggin standard we would have much better quality parts. But we don't, we ask "what is the better reproduction part". In other words, "I want the better piece of crap, can you help me find which piece of crap is better than another?"



Brian
 
#6 ·
Could reproductions of any part if made "exact" be some sort of infrigment? I seem to notice that there are some repros that say official or licsends or approved....I think some of this is just a marketing gimmick as the repop is just plain crap in some instances. But it does make make me wonder if a repop part can be legaly done in exact of every detail?
 
#12 ·
That is a laughable urban myth that I have heard before. One thing is very simply when it comes to the way the government looks at things, there is no room for "opinion", it is black or white. It's like the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) here in California. I was involved in an investigation of a shop who had done some shoddy work on a van owned by a friend of mine. It was VERY clear with them, the "quality" of the work is subjective. What one thinks is a great paint job another says it's horrible. It is an opinion, pure and simple you can't put standards on quality very easily. What the BAR was there for was simple fraud. Was every thing on the work order exactly the same as the repair. Was a new OEM part used where it said on the work order it got one, was the part replaced as it said or was it repaired. THAT is what they are after. When it comes to replacement parts it is either legal to make them or not, period. The one thing they can't do is copy right carrying items like an emblem. They can't make a Ford Escape bumper with the "ESCAPE" in the front like Ford makes them. They can't make anything like a grille with the Toyota "sombrero" shape. They can't make a GMC grille with the GMC where the emblem mounts. What they do is make the grille but the letters GMC aren't there. Instead it has the letters with portions of them missing so the emblem will bolt there but the base isn't in the shape of GMC letters. Same with the sombrero or Chevy bowtie. The Chevy pickup grilles that have a bowtie in the middle, on the AM grilles the bowtie hanges out in the air above and below a line that it is mounted on.

So no that is a myth.

Brian
 
#9 ·
John, My question wqas rhetorical. I've been this when I was in the custom furniture business. After we built prototypes, clients outsourced furniture because our prices were not satisfactory. They are given specs to follow and will follow them and the production must be approved. Level of quality depends on many factors, price being one of them.

People are generally cheap. They won't pay for good sheetmetal parts. If they did, they would buy a GM NOS quarter instead of trying to save a buck with a repro. Some won't even burp for a AMD panel. Just look in build threads. Some are scabbing 3 donor quarters together instead of using one. Most people won't pay top dollar for a fine piece of furniture that will last generations, they won't pay for quality body panels and they continue to buy junk no matter what the product is. Only a handful are concerned with quality and not price. The repro company owners know it.
 
#10 ·
I hear ya Scott.

I'm a 'quality' kinda guy :yes:
I hate doing things the easy/cheap way - seldom gets me the results I can live with ...
 
#11 ·
Brian, which hoods did you compare? 66 and 67 Chevelle hoods are not the same. The 67 Chevelle SS hood I bought from Goodmark about 5 years ago was fine. Looks good and fits good. I wish I could say that with every part but in this case it was OK.

I currently run an older Goodmark cowl hood on my 68 Camaro and it is also acceptable as far as fit and quality. I have 3 other OEM Camaro hoods for comparison (one has a hole cut for a blower) and yes, they are better, but not by a lot.

Now I agree that an NOS hood would be better, but the average guy can't fork out $1000 or more for a 67 Chevelle SS hood - IF YOU CAN FIND ONE.

AMD probably has the best overall quality, but Goodmark at least had decent parts (I don't know what will happen now since the shake up/change). Also if I ever had a problem my local Goodmark dealer would get me a replacement part that I felt was acceptable.
 
#13 ·
Brian, which hoods did you compare? 66 and 67 Chevelle hoods are not the same. The 67 Chevelle SS hood I bought from Goodmark about 5 years ago was fine. Looks good and fits good. I wish I could say that with every part but in this case it was OK.
We aren't talking "better" or worse, we are talking telling them apart. I will bet you a steak dinner at Ruth's Chris that I can pick that hood apart on the details as I have laid out or ones like them in this thread. Sure some fit damn good, some as good original. But it is a major crap shoot. But that is fit and finish, sure especially with some massaging they can look great. But the details I have laid out here are an example as to what can be different.

If you WANT original stuff on your car then study the parts and even co with photos to the swap meet to be sure you aren't getting an old repro, or if you are buying a car and want all OE, know what you are looking for and you WILL see a difference in Repro parts from OE, it is that simple. That is what we are talking about here.

Brian
 
#15 ·
From what I know, Goodmark quality varies. I never said it was always acceptable. In fact years ago I almost became a dealer for them, but part of the reason I didn't was because of the variability in the quality I was seeing.

Exactly what is wrong with each panel on that 68?
 
#16 ·
From what I know, Goodmark quality varies. I never said it was always acceptable. In fact years ago I almost became a dealer for them, but part of the reason I didn't was because of the variability in the quality I was seeing.

Exactly what is wrong with each panel on that 68?
It should be common knowledge to most that all stampings vary. Partial list without me spending more time and posting photos. I've explained many stamping issues with other quarters and some or all apply. Front of fender stamping irregular and not crisp. Voids where there should be none. Step for bumper bracket too small and won't accept it. LH fender bow at door way oversize. RH quarter rear contour a joke. RH qrtr window channel too shallow, molding clips ride above quarter. LH qrt rear is vertical at decklid and should be angled. LH qrtr wheelwell radus profile awfull and won't accept molding properly Weatherstrip channels pathetic. Door tops taper and should not. Hood corners all have to be reworked; the sides do not maintain linear consistency. All this is not out of the ordinary and does not surprise me. They're repro parts. Some of these Goodmark problems are just like other company's panels I've had.

This is a very quick glance, I'm sure there's plenty more. This job has not been started yet. Some bodyshop hung the quarters prior to making required mods. The roof skin and smoked tailpanel should have been replaced at the same time but they failed to do so.

I've taken panels back. They just go back into circulation.
If a company makes a product that is high quality, that quality will always be expected. And it costs money to make a good product in comparison to a cheap one. So just expect the repro panels not to fit and you won't be disappointed.
 
#17 ·
I have a question here for the body guys? What is this "CAPA" certified that I see advertised on body panels??? It appears they claim the "quality" is a "Better" OEM fit??? Is this another marketing hype??? I was just wondering if there was any truth to this, then maybe our panels could begin to be "CAPA" certified? :confused:
 
#18 ·
Good question and good suggestion. "CAPA" "The Certified Automotive Parts Association is a non-profit organization that certifies the quality of automotive parts used for collision repairs." was a good idea. I have seen a jig used to check the reproduction part against the OE and it was interesting to say the least. What does it mean today, not a whole lot. There most certainly a difference in SOME capa certified parts, others there really isn't. To have the part you are manufacturing be CAPA certified you have to pay for it. The AM industry has sold the Insurance industry a sock of poop and this CAPA certification was just part of it. First off, again, lets make this clear, there is NO AM part that is exactly as original, ZERO, NONE. There are many who get close enough for most people, but there isn't a single one that you can't tell from the OE. The CAPA thing was working kinda nice, it did and still does give you "something" to go on. But it has gotten grayer and grayer this "certification". I recently got a CAPA certified Camry bumper that was hideous with exposed grinder marks and what not, it was a joke. I have also used none certified that worked real well and seen ones that were so bad you would swear they were for another make and model car.

I don't see any reproduction company doing it, why? Well, I can kind of see it so they have a one up on their competition but man I don't see them doing it because they still don't have that OEM to compare it to. Plus, what would CAPA use to compare it with? Anyone got a perfect NOS roof to let them use? You know what I mean? Heck, we can all agree that many NOS panels still available never got used for a reason, either damage or it was returned to the dealer for poor fit or something goofy like that.

I don't really have a good answer (which of course would only be an opinion anyway) on your question. But there is a little run down on what CAPA is. Oh and by the way there are now a bunch of other "Certifications" that are making the waters even murkier!

I think the AM late model collision industry is largely a joke, a very bad joke.

Brian