Personal opinion.... 500 hp is the most. It will blow the tires away at will at this power level. I drove a friends 396 BBC with a dyno'ed 425 horses, backed by a Tremec 5 speed,and the car was all anyone really needed for the street. Mine was pushing 900 at the flywheel, and was just too much IMHO. With gas closing in on $4/gallon, ultra wild engines do not seem to make as much sense as they once did.

A nice 502/502 HP from GM is a nice alternative,backed by an OD trans. There are also some really potent small blocks pushing 500HP without the weight penalty of the BBC.

 

I am at around 550 hp. It took Caltrac bars, Powertrax No-Slip, 295 tires, subfarme connectors, solid body mounts, and traction is mostly good now.

I would be more concerned about breaking stuff after the 500 hp point once you do get traction. Wheel hop is the biggest offender of broken parts. Caltracs will eliminate that danger.

 

i agree with the above.500hp/500 + ft lbs.The zz502 falls right into this category and is plug and play right out of the crate.My 68 ran fine with the 530 HP 427.Never broke stuff with street rubber and a tci 700r4.
My current build is a blown 460 bbc and should make an honest 700 hp but will require some driveline mods that you would want to steer away from imho.

 

I agree with everyone else in saying 500 hp, in it's correct element, is plenty.
the crate 502 or even a 572 will give tons of fun, yet remain "manageable". :thumbsup:

 

So here's my question: how much horsepower/torque is too much for a street application?

When your suspension/drivetrain can no longer handle it. My suggestion is to start at the back of your car and work your way forward. I decided to do my car this way, and am at the last stage now, getting ready to build the engine, a 525-550 hp 406. I won't have to worry about breaking stuff because I've built the car for my driving style.

1. If you plan on putting a sticky tire on it at the track(even if you only go once or twice a year) with 500-600 HP, do not build a 10 bolt. I honestly wouldn't build a 12 bolt for that much power. My friends have grenaded 12 bolts with a little over 400 rwhp. Get a 9" or a Dana 60.

2.Manual trans or auto? Again, if your taking it to the track a good bit, you need to have a good clutch/trans combo, like a borg and beck/TKO-600 setup. If an auto, build a turbo 400 and pick a converter that matches your cam's power band.

3.Multi-leaf springs with slide-a-links or a caltrac setup from calvert racing. Weld in subframe connectors, and aluminum body body bushings would also be a good addition. A 600 hp car with poor suspension will feel like a dog compared to a 500 hp car when everything is set-up right. Burnouts are cool, but there is a time when you want the car to hook and go, and not to mention track in a straight line. It can get scary getting sideways with that much power with stock suspension.

4. Good front suspension and brakes. With that big motor, your going to want to go fast, and you need to stop fast sometimes too. Upgraded front suspension components will make the ride more enjoyable. I like to go down curvey roads from time to time, and with a completely stock suspension, the ride can get scary in a hurry. A close ratio steering box, springs, and a larger swaybar can make a big difference.

 

I run a 10 bolt with a TH350. They are a lot lighter. I have not had any problems yet.

 

Depends if it rains where you live. 500HP jeez I dont know what that feels like at all. Fastest care I been in was a z06 vett. 500 HP though...in rain, just park.

 

Just remember that 500 hp is generated at wot.How powerfull is the engine with 10% throttle angle.At the tender age of 18..we ran a 700 hp blown 427 with slicks in the rain.Stayed off the throttle and kept vehicle speed low as not to hydroplane.I would bet that poorly maintened daily drivers with air heads behind the wheel constitute a greater risk than a gearhead that knows his combo and adjusts accordingly to road conditions.

 

I've rode in a 520 RWHP~600 crank hp 03 Z06 and with that much power, the car accelerates in a hurry. Those cars have great suspension from the factory, and I can't imagine that much power in a first gen without suspension upgrades. You don't have to do much to an LS1 to make big power. H/C/I swap on a 6 speed LS1 usually nets a 125-175 RWHP increase, if you pick the right setup.

 

Rain is a whole different issue. When it rains, my Caltracs and No -slip try to fight for traction. It is a strange feeling while driving. The locker engages as the wheels try to slip. This sends a shock to the Caltracs and they slam down and dig in. You can fell the whole rear suspension load up and try to hit hard to get the wheels planted. There is a harsh slam when the tires find their target either a dry spot or something more sticky. It is not sketchy when it breaks loose so much as when it hooks back up. You have to be ready for the instant grab. If you are into a turn this translates into understeer so be ready on the wheel when the rear tires make a coarse correction. It sounds bad but as long as your are paying attention while driving it is pretty safe. If you are talking on a cellphone, eating, putting on make up (lady rodders hopefully), or any other distraction then I would say it is dangerous.

 

I appreciate all the responses! Thanks so much. There is some really good info. Another question, probably related more to the performance forum. Assuming I could get 500 hp/tq to hook up in a street configuration, what kind of time does that translate to 0-60 and 1/4 mile? Again, I will not be taking it to track, but it gives me some perspective of how quick the car may be.

It seems like everyone is in agreement about 500hp/tq being the right number...now SBC or BBC??

 

Wow ! I asked that same question, a while back and I could not get a straight answer. Everyone was... More Power ! The sky is the limit ! I like these answers much better.
BigBlock or Smallblock ? What do you have, now ? If it's a bigblock stay bigBlock. If it's a smallblock stay smallblock. People have said, that they have spent $2000.00 to properly convert from a smallblock to a bigblock. Then you have the cost of the bigblock engine itself. In a smallblock I would suggest a 383 or a 406 etc.

 

So, how much power did you decide on? My only extra consider for a BBC is that 500hp/tq would be a lot easier to achieve and a lot more streetable.

 

I just have my little 350HP 327. A 406 with AFR heads and a 282S cam, on paper makes 492 Hp and 511 tq.

 

Building to 500 HP is the easy part. Prepping a 40 year old unibody car and chassis is the hard part. Everything in the drivetrain, from the radiator to the rear lug studs have to be upgraded at 500 ponies,..harmonic, motor mounts, flywheel, clutch, bellhousing, tranny, u-joints, diveshaft, differential, axles, etc. Then of course you'll need SF connectors, rear suspension, and traction devices to keep the leafs and attaching points intact. Exhaust, fuel supply, cooling system, also need to be addressed.

 

Realistically i think a well built 400hp 450tq motor will be more than enough and shouldnt kill you to feed either.

 

How quick would a 400hp/450tq 69 camaro run 0-60 and 1/4 mile?? Assuming a street configuration with upgraded suspension. Thanks!

 

Interesting thread.

Personally I havent driven a car of this old a design but with large amounts of horsepower. One of the things thats always fascinated me is the relatively "wasteful" nature of american cars that have huge power figures but dont translate that into performance unless equipped with Mickey T's, a glide auto and a well glued strip !!!

My opinion is based more on bhp/tonne. 200bhp/tonne is nippy for a car with other things to do such as your estate car for shopping or your jeep for offroading, 300bhp/tonne is a quick but not truly fast car that can be excellent to extract maximum perforamnce out of on the circuit, 400bhp/tonne is proper fast and starts to have that "warp speed" feel but as was the case with my old Skyline it can become the norm quite quick, 600bhp/tonne is suddenly a different league and is ballistically fast. I havent owned a car with this yet so dont know if you get used to it or not, but having been in a few very very powerful cars with that and more that are often 4wd to put the power down then it becomes really blurry really quick !!

Personally I wouldnt be bothered if I had a 1000bhp car as long as I wasnt tempted to drive it home from a trackday !! Im only human but most the time I can behave !!

Best of luck,

James.

 

I did it this way and please go easy on me b/c I know it's just sim. programming use!

My about 9.8 to 1 CR'd 496 w/ a CC 282S solid lifter cam, Merlin cast-iron large ovals w/ 2.19"/1.88" valves and small, 1.75" 4-tube long headers per D2k should make like 550 hp at 5500 rpm and like 580 t at 4500 rpm. Just a big grunt motor here is all..

I inputted the D2k power curves into DRAG and spec'd a '69 Camaro car, at 3400 pound's, M-20, 3.31 posi- and 26" or so tall tires being aggressively driven and DRAG spit out 10.5 seconds at 130 mph in the quarter!!

I KNOW it's all sim, but I figure my combination should be good for low 11's if not an 11 if I can hook her w/o breaking something.

See the grunt combination deal that cubic inches and torque make is all here.

And as always, jmho. I have to concur to guy's like Bob West, trmnatr, others and even racer1320 b/c I AM NOT a racer at all! Never have been, probably will never be able to afford to either.

But I can armchair and read the old mag's w/ the best b/c I do look at this from my "shade-tree" common since BSME background.

And again, please take all this w/ a grain of salt but note that a 496 can easily make BIG power and at all that a wild an rpm!

pdq67

 

This is an awesome thread. I have a .30 over 454 that makes plenty of power, but I did what was mentioned earlier and the first thing I did was sub-frame connectors, slide-a-link, beefed up the 12 bolt and rebuilt the tranny, then put the motor tegether. it is a blast to drive. I have not had it to the track or on a dyno, so I am not going to commit to any numbers, but with a G-Tech (Don't know how accurate they are), showed mid 12's on street tires and a lot of spinning.
ANd I am sure the small block guys will have something to say about this, but it is pretty neat to see the reaction when the hood comes open and there is a big motor in a small area. I was always about small blocks and my dad said that was because I never had a big block. Now that I have got one, I'm ruined. But I also just paid $4.00 a gallon for 93 and almost passed out, so it may be getting a turbo 6 out of a Grand National when it is all over.

My $.02

 

This is an awesome thread. I have a .30 over 454 that makes plenty of power, but I did what was mentioned earlier and the first thing I did was sub-frame connectors, slide-a-link, beefed up the 12 bolt and rebuilt the tranny, then put the motor tegether. it is a blast to drive. I have not had it to the track or on a dyno, so I am not going to commit to any numbers, but with a G-Tech (Don't know how accurate they are), showed mid 12's on street tires and a lot of spinning.
ANd I am sure the small block guys will have something to say about this, but it is pretty neat to see the reaction when the hood comes open and there is a big motor in a small area. I was always about small blocks and my dad said that was because I never had a big block. Now that I have got one, I'm ruined. But I also just paid $4.00 a gallon for 93 and almost passed out, so it may be getting a turbo 6 out of a Grand National when it is all over.

My $.02

I was thinking the same thing. Of course that was back in 1978, one of several times the bastards have messed with us.