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Hurst Shifter Reverse Arm Rub

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8.9K views 18 replies 6 participants last post by  cv2065  
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Rebuilt the M21 and Competition Plus Hurst shifter. Finally getting around to installing the shifter on the M21. Unfortunately, I didn't take a picture of the arms before pulling them off, but I believe that 1-2 and 3-4 shifters are correct. The issue is with the reverse shifter. Seems like the way it is bent, it wants to slightly rub the middle shifter arm where it bends in the middle. Here's some pics. Hopefully someone can tell me if I have something on wrong. The shifter arms are aligned by the alignment hole in the pics.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c310/cv2065/IMG_0751_zpsxji5kkbv.jpg
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http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c310/cv2065/IMG_0750_zpsoapllkjh.jpg
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#2 ·
Everything looks good, the only thing I can't see in the pic is whether the reverse rod at the shifter is mounted on the passenger side of the reverse lever. Maybe it has to be rotated.
Here's a PDF from Hurst for my Comp plus for a 69, maybe it'll give some insight.

You do have the spacer on the trans to move the shifter into the right position?
 
#3 ·
Thanks Simon. The reverse shifter rod is mounted towards the passenger side of the reverse lever, and I do have the spacer installed as well. My M21 is from '69, so looks like I the correct parts. Just don't understand why the reverse shifter rod is making contact with the middle bend of the 3-4 shifter rod. I see some minor scarring on the two rods, so perhaps this hasn't been right from the last owner, but not really sure how to correct unless I bend the existing reverse rod or buy a fresh install kit?
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Hard to see in the photo how the reverse rod is connected to the actual shifter tab in your pictures but yeah here is the standard over the counter Hurst install guide for the Competition Plus shifter line for a 1969 Camaro, Firebird or Chevrolet Muncie 4 speed.

Maybe a little persuasion will massage it in place? :)
 

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#5 ·
Thanks Brian. I've had already downloaded these and been scratching my head over it. All the pieces look right and orientation is correct. Says not to heat these rods up when bending, to bend cold. Have to figure out the best way to do that.

Also, I've ran through the gears dry a couple of times to ensure that they all engage. Which seems that they do. It's a little rough due to not having fluid in there, but as expected. Does the drive shaft need to be spinning to pull up trans fluid into the gear set, or if I just fill it up, does the level come high enough to self lubricate as the gears spin manually? Wanted to see what it felt like running through the gears with lubrication before I put into the car.

Thanks.
 
#6 ·
Don't spin or shift it dry. The rods your using are from the Hurst Comp Plus shifter kit and they are smaller in diameter plus the bends won't be correct as OEM.
Do a neutral alignment on the shifter 1st and try and reverse the 1-2 rod.

Rather than coming in from the back, try coming in from the outside like in mine below.
If you don't have the OEM rods then you'll need to heat the rev rod and bent it to make it work.

In my bottom pic I show my OEM rods that are in the car and the ones that came with my Hurst Comp plus shifter which I think are a joke. They are far from matching the OEM bends.

My 70 Z28, not sure if this helps for a '69.
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OEM factory Hurst Comp Plus Shifter in this pic
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OEM on top and the rods that come with a Hurst Comp Plus shifter that don't match OEM on the bottom.
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OEM Hurst Comp Plus vs After market Hurst Comp Plus shifter in this link on my web page http://my1970z28.com/COPO/shifter_area.htm
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
Chad, looks like something is going on with the reverse rod, in both the Hurst install pics and Marks pic of his non original reverse rod linkage, the bend in your rev rod isn't as pronounced, sharp . If I get a chance tomorrow I'll try and snap a pic of my non original Hurst comp plus to compare.
Brian thanks for the PDF posting, looks like I forgot to paste.
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the feedback guys. Tried bending the reverse rod in my press, and jacked it up pretty good, so I'll be buying something else. I suppose I can use it as a security rod for my garage door. I tried reversing the 1-2 rod and it just wasn't happening, as it was banging into the case. I'm assuming with the aftermarket Comp Plus shifter that I have, one can't use the OEM rod/levers? From that picture Mark put up in comparison, those replacement rods don't even come close to the quality of OEM. If not, then I'll go ahead and order this kit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-3737437

Should have everything I need and lots of what I don't, but at least it will mesh together. The 1-2 and reverse rods look similar to what I already have. The 3-4 looks a little different.

Unless anyone has any better suggestions.
 
#10 ·
I would hunt down GM Factory OEM 1969 rods. I use my OEM rods with both my OEM and after market Hurst Comp Plus shifters.

When I use my after market shifter all I add to the rods at the shifter levers is the nylon bushings. When I go back to my OEM shifter, I remove the nylon bushings.

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#11 ·
Thanks for all of the pics Mark. Looks like I'd have to trade in my wife to get a real set of GM rods. Although that sounds like a good idea at times, I'll have to go with some repros. Jerry posted a link and looks like Heartbeat has some stainless looking ones. Might be the same quality as those I posted from Hurst and Summit, but do you think the original design is better? I do have metal bushings that I bought instead of the nylon ones.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for this Jerry. Now I know that the reverse and 1-2 rods rubbing is sadly 'normal' with the Hurst kit. I'll go with the Classic Industry one that you linked to so I can avoid this. As Mark noted, I'll just have to Loctite the nuts so that they don't move after I get neutral alignment. Although, I could use my swivel connectors that I already have for the reverse and 3-4 rods, and the nut linkage for 1-2.

Thanks again for the help!
 
#13 ·
Unless the repos fit correctly, I wouldn't touch them. Other note, if you want to tighten up
slop on the rods at both ends, Home Depot sells real thin washers that you can use to take
up any slack. Lastly the orig rods are beefier and that's why I stay with them even tough I
like the after market swivel type connection at the shifter that stays put, not like the OEM
which has a stop nut at both ends where you see my orange RTV to lock the nut from turning
and throwing my neutral alignment out.
 
#14 ·
I think you will find that almost all the reproduction OEM style rods are made by the same shop. Some sold in re-branded packaging some just slap a sticker over the hanger. The reproductions are of average quality although I had a set in my hands at a swap last year where on the 1-2 rod there was a pronounced sharp edge along the rod that might be able to nibble away at a backup light switch harness if being used in such a set up, but a few minutes with a grinder would take care of it. The rods I have seen on the market are usually black in color.

Pull a few searches on OEM vs Aftermarket Hurst Competition Plus on first gens, not all things interchange without work. Watch the small details that will bite you, or at least bind up your shifter. Most all of us have a story or two about those little things leaving us stuck in gear or out of gear.

Bottom line for 100% reliability if you have a factory style OEM shifter, then use the factory mount plate, rods and levers. If you have Aftermarket search out the best mounting you can find, because this will differ based upon if your transmission is original to the vehicle, or your car had a conversion and or a transplant of a Muncie from a later year.

In the Hurst mounting kits the U clamp originally used especially on 67-68 kits for the tail connection was/were not very reliable and they, and many others out there in the marketplace make a mounting plate specific for vehicle year and Muncie year that solves that issue but you still have to make sure you still have the right rods, levers and bushings as well as the right cross-member on the vehicle.

Mark is 100% right about the rod difference. Bottom line was that the OEM shifter had no body adjustments - after all it was designed for the vehicle set-up, whereas the over the counter aftermarket body Competition Plus body had adjustment bolts and the rods also had swivels to adjust throw because it is/was sold as an one size fits all shifter replacement kit. The factory rods are superior because they were designed and manufactured for one vehicle/purpose. A keen eye and a quick finger can find decent factory rods on eBay and other sites such as HBC, Craigslist.
 
#17 ·
Ah, that sucks. Guess I'll be loctiting all the nuts. I'd rather deal with that then deal with the rub or screw up another by bending it. Thanks for the heads up.
 
#18 ·
Attached is a photo of the rods on my shifter where they connect. Is it possible that you need to rotate one of the swivel connectors to the other side of one of the shift arms? Just thought a photo might help.
 

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#19 ·
Thanks for that Chris. Everything was oriented the same way. I think that these aftermarkets rods are designed poorly where the 1-2 and reverse rods rub. I purchased another set that is more true to OEM design, so hopefully that will cure my issue.