yeah- that's the solution.
put the kids in jail.
that'll learn them a lesson.

 

I guess they can learn a lot in jail too... :clonk:

 

David its not the kids they will be putting in jail its the parents,I saw it yesterday after the 3rd un-excused absence there can be a 25-100 dollar fine and/or a year in jail.This is the craziest thing I've ever seen.I believe it will meet with alot of controversy around here,(the new law).

 

PREPARE FOR RANT - Not directed at ANYONE on here -

I thought that was always the case, kids skip out / stop coming to school after a period of time (whatever the magic length of time was) and the parents get in trouble. Honestly, the parents should be held accountable for it. I can't say jail is the answer, cause then who's watching the "kid". In my current line of work, you'd be surprised (or maybe not) how many kids throw their lifes out the window by not finishing school. Kid across the street is like that, his parents gave up on him cause they were tired of dealing with him (because they let the KID rule the house and make the rules and then couldn't figure out why he was a POS) so now he's a 17 year old drop out. Came into one of my recruiting stations and guess what, he can't join. But hey, its all good, he's "working on his GED" and "he's really a good kid" and "he just wants to get ahead" an his criminal record "isn't too bad, besides its all as a Juvie". BS in my opinion. Not saying your a POS if you dont finish school, but heres how I see it - too many people out here crying how life is unfair (not you guys, just people I deal with in my work), wha wha wha, life is unfair, but when you look at it, they made some pretty ****ty choices, like dropping out of school, or skipping so much school that they didn't graduate, or at a minimum they are idiots because they missed so much school they didn't learn anything. Then they just can't figure out why they can't get a job, or why they end up working some crappy job (or numerous crappy jobs) for the rest of their life. They grow up to think that the rest of "us" are stuck up snobs and had life handed to us, when in reality, they made bad choices and their parents allowed, if not encouraged bad choices. Skip school a couple times, eh, no real issue, skip school a couple times a week, yes, start coming down on the parents, cause parents are supposed to know better. Look around, wonder why todays generation is so jacked up, and no, not all of them, there are more squared away kids then we tend to think, but honestly, look at the kids that are 13 to 18, they are truly out of control for the most part and the first person (which is part of the problem, single, young parent) you we need to look at is the parentS. Maybe its because of where I live right now, but I see it almost every day, people throw their life away, people that could have become anything in the world, and Im not on some high horse saying they have to be Dr's or Lawyers in order to matter in this world, I know we need garbage men as well, but kids with so much potential that because their parents where "cool" and let them skip school /or/ drink /or/ smoke pot /or/ knock up the grilfriend /or/ not get a job /or/ be the knocked up girlfriend that their life is generally speaking, headed no where fast. We have kids come in that can't join the Army because they cant pass the ASVAB, Im talking HS grads that cut a 4 on the ASVAB, and in case you dont know, you have to get at least a 30 to join in most cases, these kids cut 4's. Asked a kid what his phone number was, after pulling out a piece of paper from his wallet to look it up, he said something like 256-94C, and we were like, um, you just threw out a letter, and your missing a number in there. Im sure that kid is destined for greatness and I bet he also got the perfect attendance award. Im no rocket scientist, Im dyslexic and can't spell at all (obvious yet?) but I got on with my life and I didn't make matters worse by skipping.

RANT Over - You guys know I get ramped up on this kinda stuff, lol and ok ok, I might have gone off on a tangent just a tad bit lol. Sorry, I get myself all ramped up, at least Im not attacking anyone this time!

 

I think any kid that quits school should have to join the armed forces. It's the dumbest decision they can make. So let the Army straighten them out.

 

Bonzo - I wish it was that simple, the days of "go to jail or join the Army" and "if you've got no other options, join the Army" are over. We aren't allowed to take "those" kids anymore. At a minimum they have to have a GED, and there's only a few times a year we can even allow GED's to join. It used to be ok for a Judge to dismiss a case if they knew the kid was going to join the Army, heck, one of my best NCO's joined based on a deal like that, but now, its illegal, the Army can't be the alternative to jail, which actually makes sense, the Army is a great career, it shouldn't be the "other" option besides jail. Now, I will say this, the Army (or any branch of the Armed Forces) can certainly change a way of life, but honestly, some of these kids are too far gone, they've been left alone w/ little or no discipline, little or no physical activity and little or no education, even the best Drill Sergeant wouldn't be able to work with them. I do think that everyone should have to serve their country for a period of time, not just in the military, but everyone should have to do something for the greatest country in the world. There are waaaay to many free-loaders that are about taking and not giving anything back.

 

Just what I want, a Juvie Deliquent driving a tank or behind one of the big guns... :clonk:

I think any kid that quits school should have to join the armed forces. It's the dumbest decision they can make. So let the Army straighten them out.

 

I think any kid that quits school should have to join the armed forces. It's the dumbest decision they can make. So let the Army straighten them out.

I have to respectfully disagree. I was in the military for 7 years, and I cringe at the thought of putting my life in the hands of some kid that couldn't even get through high school. The Army has a specific purpose, which is to break things and kill people. If a person learns a few things along the way, that's great. I do not however see they military as a social development program for kids not wanting to finish high school. I'm not saying that some of the dropouts wouldn't make fine soldiers, but the Military been turned into a smarter, smaller and more effective force, which has little room for unmotivated, uneducated people. Look at the enlisted ranks in todays military, and you will find that many of them are college educated. The days of the military being a refuge for high school dropouts and criminals is over.

I don't think a kid, or their parents should go to jail for dropping out of school, but both should have some responsibility in the matter. The goverment provides the educational opportunity, and if the kid rejects it, then he/she will have to live with that decision.

Edit: I see my post was sort of a repeat of a few others. Guess I should have waited a while to post.

 

I agree on both of the above posts - the equipment we use today, you cant be a rock with lips and expect to make it in the Army.

One part I have an issue with is "...The government provides the educational opportunity, and if the kid rejects it, then he/she will have to live with that decision" I agree to an extent, but the problem is, the kid is a minor, not legally able to make those choices, only the parent can (should). What happens is a kid makes the choice to drop out because his/her parents allow it to happen because the kid is "adult" enough to handle himself or they themselves were dropouts and did "fine". Then, after realizing that they are not adults, they revert back to being a kid and want someone / the Government to take care of them via other social programs. The endstate is that its not just "them" that have to live with it, its you and I. I hate to throw out this stereotype, but those w/o HS diplomas are not usually putting a lot back into society, at least not for the good of the community. I can tell you hands down, 9 out of 10 times that a kid w/o an education will end up being a leach on society to one extent or another. It may simply be that he spends more than his fair share of time in juvie or jail soaking up your tax dollars or on/in some other social assistance program like welfare etc. A kid with an education will actually contribute at least something, if nothing else, his money will go into the community via the retail market. I just see it all too often, I wanna be an adult one minute then revert back to being a kid the next, and if/when the parents let them, it teaches them a very important, yet drastically incorrect, life lesson, that you dont have to be responsible for your actions. I swear guys, I see it every other day and it ****es me off simply because I know they could do so much more with their lives, and I blame the parents (I know there are cases where its not the parents) because at some point, the parent lost control. And honestly, when they look back they dont look back far enough to realize when they lost the control. It was years before, maybe when the curfew got dropped or when they weren't disciplined at 5 years old or maybe it was when they were 3 and listened to mommy and boyfriend cussing at each other all night long. The parents of the kid across the street, when I moved here the mother flat out told me, if something gets stolen or damaged, it was her son. Ok, great, you know that, so what are you doing about it? The parents lost control of him years ago and just passed off the warning signs as him being a kid, talking back, cussing, smoking, drinking and while his actions grew and grew, they became numb, then wonder how little "Johnny" got to be like this.....

Dang it I’m ramped up still - gotta go to work and find QUALIFIED young men and women to put into the Army!

 

You might be right about the juvi thing. Quitting school is such a pet peeve of mine, perhaps I jumped. In my experience, not all kids who quit school are juvi cases, so perhaps my frame of reference needs tweaking. Maybe ‘public service’ is a better term, although I am not sure exactly how that plays out.

I thought I heard it reported they were going to start considering HS dropouts for the armed forces because recruitment is so low. Maybe it was just a stupid news talk show thing. Plus, I am sure the military has ways to get a kid a GED in 2 days. They can’t be that hard to pass, can they?

 

They are implementing a plan in our county where they will put kids that skip out of school into jail.

What's next... if you play hookie from work, will you end up in jail?

Don't take this wrong, I just think it really would help to provide more details when throwing out a topic like this... a link to a news report would really help or at least more facts...

The facts as I was able to find using google...

Georgia inacted a new law where each county must have a plan that penalizes the student, and if need be, their parent, when school absences pile up. (didn't find the exact verbage of the law though)

It's the individual countys responsibility to deal with truancy. Unless there is verbage in the new state law giving them authority to jail, there must be existing laws on the books that allow jail time for truancy.

I think jail time would be a worst case last resort type of thing... Here's one news article I found...

http://www.wctv6.com/schools/headlines/1764547.html

In Oakland (my back yard) in 2003 letters went out to parents letting them know they run the risk of dealing with the DA if their children are cronicly truant. My understanding is laws went into effect about 30 years ago in CA that would allow this. In most states it's the law and has been the law for a real long time (just like here in CA) that kids under 16 attend school.

Here's one more that says the feds are the reason this is becoming a "current affair" in many communities. "No Child Left Behind" is putting pressure on the states to enforce truancy laws to keep kids in school....

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0217/p12s02-legn.htm

 

The guys here at work said they were told that after a certain number of "unexcused absences", ie: no note from a parent, that they would be contacted by the DA. Sounds like what your talking about Dennis. Thats here in Alabama. One of my guys said that they have like 3 days to send in the note otherwise it goes against the running count, think he said they had a limit of 5 unexcused then after that it was a call/letter from the DA. The guy brought up the point that he's sent in a note with one of his daughters after she was out for being sick, and found the note in her bag a week later - which would chap my hide if I knew that because my son/daughter forgot to hand over the letter, I'd face some charge etc. I see a big difference between being out sick and forgetting the note than what I believe the "law" (if there is one) is targetting, which is the image I think most of us have of kids hanging out at the mall or gas station screwing around.
I know Im a tad bit opinonated on topics like this and often see it as black / white, but honestly, most things are black or white. Its when we ourselves invent the "gray" area that right / wrong tend to get confused and people stray away from what is truly right. I think the invention/creation or notion of a gray area is our own way to justify things we know we shouldnt do. Dont get me wrong, Im very far from perfect, Im not saying Im better than anyone, I create my own gray areas in life and take advantage sometimes too, the difference is, Im man enough to pay the price if I screw up.

Thanks guys for letting me vent on here.

 

These discussions are tough... They make a lot of assumptions, and some rash generalizations, not to mention arbitrarily assigning labels to vast groups of people. While it's true that many single parent homes are too "busy" keeping a roof overhead and food on the table, there are also a huge number of kids from such homes who have the will to succeed and therefore do succeed, but even then they succeed in different ways, some make it to college, some don't, some become doctors, others electricians, but still what society should consider "successful". On the other hand, a large percentage of "problem kids" are from upper middle class 2 parent homes, with every possible advantage. They "choose" not to succeed in spite of the best efforts of their concerned, loving, well to do parents.

 

I deal with these drop outs as mature (in age only) adults. I hear this crap every day. JHunter is accurate in his assessment. Adults in their 30's, 40's and older. All I hear is "I can't pay my child support because I can't find a job". During the interview, it is typical to learn the deadbeat dropped out of school, some as early as sixth grade. I tell them the world needs ditch diggers, car washers, and someone to clean the dog crap out of the parks. The "work" ethic they adopted as children is the same for them now. They can work, they can find employment. They choose not to because the pay sucks and they "ain't flippin no burgers for $6.50 an hour". Many are just frikken LAZY! That's it, LAZY! Still living with mommy and making it on her disability or social security. Sleeping under her roof, eating her food, enjoying her cable. All because mommy and daddy never made him go to school, much less finish school. They sure know how to reproduce though. Don't get me wrong, not all parents who are responsible for child support are deadbeats and not all deadbeats are lazy. I just see the cream of the crop every month. So, where I am going with this? Parents are responsible for thier kids until age 18. Parents must see that their children attend school. Parents must be a part of a child's life. Parents must get involved in that child's life. My wife (the Camaro hater) is a 1st grade teacher and she sees the apathy in her class. Parents don't care, child adapts and doesn't care. Parents don't set rules and limits, child adapts to no rules for him and no limits for him. As an adult, that child's attitude and behavior will limit his ability for employment and time spent in that employment. It is much easier for them to avoid work, apply for "public assistance", apply for "disability" and live off of the taxpayer. Think about it. The taxpayer supplies housing, food, clothing, and utilities plus substance for these "children", all because the parents let it fall apart early on.

 

This is a tough subject. Some things I see: Parents are not able (by law) to punish their kids for acts of stupidity like they should, Money doesn't go as far as it once did, so both parents have to work to make the bills. This is a problem if the t.v. is raising the kid and/or neighbor kids who are troubled youths. Kids have it waaay too easy these days. x-box, cell phones, etc.
It's also harder to go to "juvy" than it used to be. I have a friend who is raising a 17 year old guy. He slowly went downhill, until he eventually stole a car! I thought for sure he would go to juvy since he got caught and everything....Nope! The cop said that they would laugh at him for bringing him down to the youth center for a "minor crime"...I couldn't believe it. Things need to change for sure, but I think it needs to start at home, which is getting harder to achieve. I feel for all the parents of troubled teens out there. I know it isn't easy...

Dano

 

David its not the kids they will be putting in jail its the parents,I saw it yesterday after the 3rd un-excused absence there can be a 25-100 dollar fine and/or a year in jail.This is the craziest thing I've ever seen.I believe it will meet with alot of controversy around here,(the new law).

Hum... I typed it in as soon as I saw it on the news... that wasn't what I heard... they talked about it again this morning on the news... this time when questioned about Jail, the guy said something like "if it came to that" (a little more vague about it).

Djd---this the lounge on a car site... not the political area on CorvetteForum

 

I see just as many middle class kids go bad because the parents don't get involved and think having material things is the answer. These middle class kids do as they please because mom and dad have their own lives so they toss the kids money and say grab a burger when you buy your new school cloths at the mall. Can you imaging your 14 year old being invited to a coed sleep over birthday party? I can, twice this summer. How about at a hotel 45 miles from home because the parents of the birthday kid have a social event they don't want to miss so they rented some rooms at a hotel across from the beach boardwalk and called it a party.

There are good parents and bad parents in all levels of social status. More good kids come from good parents, social status doesn't matter...

 

Raising children really isn't all that hard. Sure it is a lot of work and you are on duty 24/7. It all starts at home when they are babies. If you are the parent of a "troubled" teen 99.9% of the time you can look in the mirror and that's the reason. Too many parents these days want to be "friends" to their kids. I personally think that is a mistake. I love my kids dearly and I am a PARENT first and a friend second. They have been taught from the very beginning if you do something wrong there will be a price to pay. This is the same way I was raised. My parents were from the south and did not play around, when it came to behavior. I grew up in an area that 98% of my friends did not make it through high school (some not even through Jr High), that was plain not going to happen in my house. From day one it was drilled into our heads, you WILL graduate high school, after that you would either work or go on for more education. There were no other options. I am the youngest of 7 kids (4 boys, 3 girls), and not a single one of us has ever been in trouble with the law. Out of all the guys (and girls) I grew up with I can't name a single one that has not been arrested at some point. All the spoiled kids that would talk back to their parents and get their way are the same ones that are in trouble. My parents were more than fair, when you did wrong, you expected to get your butt busted. My kids know the same thing, the truth is they are very good kids and I can't remember the last time I had to dish out a spanking. It's amazing that a few spankings at a young age and sticking to your word, will make them believers, now a warning is all it usually takes or even the "right" look.

If they are not taught to respect "authority" at home they will never respect it in the streets. I don't think a parent should be jailed for a child that cuts school. I think the parent should have to attend classes with that student. This will teach them both a lesson. The parent will not be happy because they have to miss work and possibly pay. The child will not like it because it will be embarrassing to have your mom holding their hand while walking down the hall.

Both my kids know I will have no problem holding their hand and dragging them to school and from class to class. I doubt I will ever have that problem. Both are great students (thank goodness they took after their mom).

 

It seems to me that the problem is simply the attitude that different people choose to adopt... The tough part is society's inclination to find someone to blame this on... 3 examples, up close and personal:

My parents divorced when I was 11. After that, my brother and I grew up with minimal supervision and zero money. My brother stayed in school, graduated, worked awhile, got married, and eventually put himself thru college and became a cpa. along the way, he reproduced, got divorced, and got married again. He's a reasonably well adjusted successful person, a professional with a nice house in the suburbs, expensive foriegn cars, etc. etc...

I "got involved with the bad crowd" in school, cut classes, did drugs, and dropped out. After a year flipping burgers, I enlisted, did 3 years service, used what they taught me, and after about 10 years, started my own business, which I've successfully run for 15 years.

My wife and I are active in our childrens schools and schooling. Every night after dinner it's homework time, and the TV and the video games stay off until it's done. We work hard, both at home and at work, and I believe we show our children good values and work ethic each and every day. My oldest son will be 17 soon. He is a complete lazy spoiled brat, who beleives he can make his own rules, come and go as he pleases, treat nothing or nobody with the slightest amount of respect or concern, etc etc.

2 years ago, we started thinking God might be the missing link, and since then we have taken our children to church every Sunday (oldest won't go for the past year)

He's been going down this road since he was 11. We have sat with him while he's should be doing his homework, argued with him, yelled at him, made deals with him. We put him in a private school when he started failing halfway thru 8th grade, private school as a freshman (he flunked out) back to public school as a soph (he flunked every class, and refused to go around December) then my wife tried to homeschool him (he did very well for a couple months, then refused to do it anymore.) We let him get his drivers license and inherit an older but decent car (we hoped that the threat of us pulling his mobility would keep him in line, and yes, we followed thru on that threat many times. We also made a "deal" that he would hold a job and pay his own insurance, he of course reneged on the deal almost immediately.) In the space of 10 weeks, he destroyed the car (kicked in parts of it, got sideswiped a couple times racing with his friends, shot out the outside mirrors with paintball guns, and finally slid it into a lightpole and totaled it) During that time, he got 4 speeding tickets and has had his license revoked for a minimum of 1 year. (we refer to this as "natural consequences") He's found and then quit or been fired from 6 jobs in the past year. He's been fired from 3 community service positions (has to do 50 hours per traffic court), and has made no effort to pay his fines or his lawyer (no, we didn't, and WIL NOT!. He remains convinced that he'll get his license back next spring anyway, and we'll let him find out the truth of that the hard way.

Yesterday, we finally tricked/reasoned with/convinced him that he has to go back to the local public high school, he's registered and we'll see what happens.

WE have worried, fretted and lost sleep over this boy for years. We have taken him to couselors, shrinks, had his IQ tested, various kinda of therapy, different schools, plenty of parental attention, supervision, and support...

So who has the answer? If it's the parents fault when a child turns out bad, where did we go wrong? Why is this kid so screwed up when he has every possible advantage and encouragement that any kid could have?

 

btw---when I was a freshman in high school (Illinois), I skipped 21 days in a row. I did flunk 2 classes because of it... then through the rest of high school, I did skip quite a bit. I graduated on time. I signed up for delayed entry into the Air Force... only missed 1 question on the test... they liked that... ended up getting kicked out of the Air Force before going active because I got 3 moving violations in my Dad's '68 Camaro one night. Ended up going to college (St.Louis) instead... got straight A's... tested out of several classes... graduated in half the time...

 

Jim,
Without knowing you better or knowing your kid at all. It is hard to say. I can tell you just from what you wrote above the kid does not respect you or his mother. That is the biggest issue. The problem is at 17 it won't be easy to "fix" the problems. You said it started at 11, it should have been nipped in the butt right then and there. You admitted he is spoiled, that can be a problem. We all want to give our kids the world, but that is not always the best thing. You said a few things like, "reasoning, tricking, etc..." Never did you DEMAND anything. He has too much power. At 17 he is still a child PERIOD, "he won't go to church" that means there must be another option. He might not "want" to go, but you as his father if you say he IS going then that's the final word. Sounds like you guys have treated him more as an adult and let him have his way far too much. If he was not behaving he should have never been able to get his license to begin with.

Don't get me wrong I was no angel, I went through my periods on being a knucklehead, problem is my mom and dad were both twice as tough as I thought I was. I repeated the 8th grade, even though my test scores were always above average. I was being tough and not turning in my homework, I did it cause my parents made me, I just wouldn't turn it in. I was getting in trouble, fighting, talking back to teachers and getting suspended constantly. I always had an excuse on how it wasn't my fault. Finally my dad told me flat out, "If you get suspended again I am going to beat your A$$". Guess what? I never got suspended from school again all through high school. Tough love is not a bad thing, some kids need it, some don't. Typically boys need it more than girls. You can not give a kid too much freedom or privacy, that stuff has to be earned, not given.

You guys probably think damn, I would hate to have you as my Dad, LOL. If you asked either one of my kids, they would tell you I am very nice and treat them well. They love me as much as I love them. They will also tell you that they respect me and don't fear me. They can talk to me about anything. We can work through any situation, but if I tell them not to do something and they do it anyway they will also tell you there will be a price to pay. There are rules and they need to be followed. If you don't follow rules at home, how will you learn to follow them in public?

One last thing, you have to be a man or woman of your word. If you say "don't do that again or else" You better be prepared to follow up on whatever the "else" is. My parents had a rule, it was simple; if you got arrested, they were not bailing you out and were not coming to visit you, PERIOD. Since they were always true to their word, I never EVER even thought about getting arrested.

 

Royce,
Most of the points you bring up have, at the least, been true at one time or another.
My wife has always thought I was too tough, I've always thought she was too easy. The act of reconciling between the two, too often in front of the kids, has been a problem at times. They have also learned that when mom says no, that means "hassle her until she says yes" and when dad says no make him yell until mom can't stand it anymore...

As far as DEMANDING, yes I do that, too often. At this point, while they know I will back up my demand with physical violence if I have to, they also know mom has no stomach for that.

We try hard to stay on the same page, to work out our compromise in advance, out of earshot of the kids, but it's not always easy to do it that way. Frankly, I love my wife, and if she would rather I did not raise my voice or lay a hand on them, well that's how it will be. She's much more able to "stick to her guns" if I'm there, summers can be tough cause she's home and I'm not. They get her very stressed out, to the point where she becomes physically ill. Sh'e worried about the oldest to the point where she can't sleep at night, feels guilty because it's "all her fault", etc..

What do you do with a 16 y o, 160 lb person who will look you straight in the eye and say "No, I won't do that?" I can certainly still kick his *** pretty easility, but is that the answer?

 

Jim,
You and the wife have to be on the same page. If not the kids will see that and they will work the "system". Sounds like he already has that down. When i was growing up, if Mom or Dad said no and I went to the other to hopefully get my way, that would be a BIG mistake. They stuck together, if Mom said no, then it was no. If dad said no it was no. there was very little yelling ever. Mom would yell a little more than dad. If you made dad angry enough to yell you were already getting a spanking anyway.

As long as your wife won't stick to her guns, you will have problems. The kids still need to respect you. Personally if I were in your shoes, I would take him some place Mommy is not around (out in the woods, or a deserted parking lot) and have a man to boy talk with him. Let him know you will not stand for it, period. You have to gain control and get your respect back. It is not all about being able to whip him, it is about letting him know you will whip him if needed. Never in my life would I look my mom or dad in the eye and tell them "No, I won't do that", I am 6'4" 215lbs, my mom was 5'2" and I would never EVER dream of testing her. Sure I probably could have whipped her, it wouldn't have been easy and she would have clubbed me with something. Dad would honest to god shoot me if I ever raised my hand to my mother, He said it and meant it. He also always said if I thought I was man enough to whip him, to just let him know. He was not a huge man either 5'10" 195lbs. To this day in his very poor health I will not disrepect him. Even if he is being totally un-reasonable. I have WAY too much respect for what he has done for us. If he stood up and popped me in the mouth to this day I would not do anything in return. I have 100% respect and love for him. He would never do a thing like that unless I deserved it. Every spanking I ever got (and there were plenty) was deserved and usually came with a warning or two.

Your child has no respect for you or anyone else. He figures what's the worse thing that can happen. You aren't going to do anything. Maybe yell a little. That is no real price to pay. Send him to boarding school, see how he likes that. Better yet send him to live with me for a few months, he will appreciate all you have done for him and all the things he has. I feel for you, but you have to toughen up on him. You say you let up because your wife can't take it, but yet she is so upset and worried she gets ill. Family counseling would be a great place to start at this point. He doesn't get the option of "No, I won't go" If you have to tie his behind up while he is sleeping and drag him there, then so be it. Don't be a friend, be a parent. Kids don't talk to their parents like that. When he is smarting off to your wife "pop" him to let him know that is your wife and you love her too much to let him hurt her like that. This would be a good man to boy talk to have with him. Just the two of you, out where there are no distractions (fishing, camping, whatever). You will be amazed at how he changes his tune when there is not "help" for him. Tell him you are going to get dinner and don't stop until you are out in the sticks and he will have no choice but to listen. If he doesn't want to listen let him walk from there. There are ways to get his attention without just thumping him. Though a good thumping might do him some good at this point.

Let him know all those video games, shoes, clothes, etc.. are privilages and can all be taken away. Don't just talk the talk, make a stand. He will respect you a lot more.


P.S. I don't know all the answers I just know what worked on me and what works for me. Parenting is typically learned from well... from your parents. I have seen a lot of mistakes made from friends parents and other parents around me now. Every child is different and has to be handled that way. Rules are rules and it doesn't matter who you are there are rules that have to be followed. If you don't learn it at home you will learn it in the streets and go to jail. If you don't learn it at home you will never keep a job. Life is full of choices and rules, making the right choices can only be done after you know and follow the rules.

 

Royce, the things you've said make all the sense in the world, and your reading between my lines is accurate as well. We've talked about boarding, military, and other schools for "troubled" kids, as well as boot camp type stuff. At this point, it's been decided that he's simply not worth the expense ($6000-$9000 PER MONTH!). If he has trouble in school again, that could change. For now, I've got 15 months, then his stuff is on the porch and the locks are changed. (at least now, the wife completely agrees.)

For the near term, our concentration is, or should be, on recognizing what went wrong, and not repeating our mistakes. He does have 2 younger brothers after all (who learn WAY too much from him.)

But enuf of this... I'm here to talk about cars, not moan about my problems.

 

Not a problem Jim we all have issues to deal with. If I can offer a little help I am happy to. If you want to talk about it behind the scenes feel free. You can e-mail me or PM me. Yes, this is a car site, but honestly it feels almost like family here at times. Now back to the regularly scheduled program, LOL. Hang in there Jim be tough, don't let him ruin your Family. there are a few other options, we can discuss that are not costly.