Nobody has any opinions? Any Richmond owners out there???

 

The TKO is a superior transmission from everything I've read. I have no personal experience with the Richmond.

 

You need to research the Richmond because I don't think you will save any money if you're talking about buying new. As far as I know, most of them have a 1:1 fifth gear which means you are not getting an overdrive, only tighter ratios. To get an actual OD fifth, you have to step up the Super Street model which by itself cost more than the entire TKO-600 kit and it has less torque capacity to boot. Keiser sold me an entire TKO-600 kit with crossmember, new driveshaft and slip yoke, AND full Sachs 650 ft.lb. clutch kit shipped for several hundred $$$ less than the cheapest OD Richmond five speed on Summit Racing.

Sounds like if you're wanting an overdrive your uncle is about to have you make a costly mistake. No offense to him, but some don't realize that a five speed isn't always an overdrive trans. You need to make clear to him what it is you want.

 

I have a Richmond 6 speed and love it. It was a complete pain to install but the end result was worth it. Big difference is the side rail shifter in a Richmond vs other swaps. Feels like a tighter shifting Muncie. Very mechanical. Yes I believe most Richmond 5 speeds don't have an OD but are a lot easier to install than the 6 speed. You end up with a big first gear in the trans and close ratios down to a 1:1. First check the exact gear ratios in your Richmond of choice and calculate your rpm on the highway with your tire height and current gears and decide if you can live with the rpm's. If you can get a good deal on a Richmond, I say go for it. If it is a used Richmond or one that's been sitting awhile, make sure to check the case seals and replace them if they are old.

You just have to decide what your goal is with the tranny swap. If you want to drop your rpm's on the highway, the standard Richmond 5 speed won't do it. If you want to slam gears with a close ratio 5 speed that increases your car's acceleration, then your Uncle has a point!

Here's a link from one of the moderators on this site that explains some of the swap.

http://www.pozziracing.com/richmond_transmission_swap.htm

 

Most of the folks who actually drive their cars alot agree that a modern overdrive transmission is one of the best modifications they make to their cars. Tell your uncle that its like having a Muncie 4 speed with a rear end ratio that allows the car to really take off, with that fifth gear he always wished he had on the highway, the one that keeps the engine from screaming as you plow along at 60mph - it really is the best of both worlds.

For example, if you have a 3.42 rear ratio now, first gear with the TKO600 gives you an overall ratio of 9.82:1; first gear with the Richmond gives you an overall ratio of 11.22:1. The TKO600 overall first gear ratio is about the same as a wide ratio Muncie with gearing between 3.73 and 4.11 gears; the Richmond overall first gear ratio is about the same as a wide ratio Muncie with 4.56 gears - you're getting into granny gear territory. Fifth gear with the Richmond is still like having 3.42:1 rear gears; fifth gear with the TKO600 is like having 2.19:1 rear gears. You're turning 2650rpms @ 60mph with the Richmond (and 26" tires), you're turning 1800rpms @ 60mph with the TKO600 (and 26" tires).

If you have rear end gears that are 3.08:1 or lower numerically, then the Richmond may be okay; if you have rear end gears that are 3.42:1 or higher numerically, I think you're not going to be happy with the Richmond, and will need to include the cost of a rear gear change, which then probably makes the TKO600 the more economical deal.

 

Thank you everyone for all of the replies. I guess I never realized that the Richmond wasn't a true overdrive, I remember reading that on some website but didn't really think about it too much. He probably assumes I will never make any "long" distance travels in the car (which I most likely won't) so I don't need the overdrive. But I do want to be able to cruise on the freeway every so often at a reasonable RPM. I guess that would mean I would need the Tremec.

 

Richmond does make a 5 speed with overdrive that is a direct replacement for a muncie. ( Best verify this. ) However the gear ratios probably aren't as close as their 5 speed non-overdrive unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-...tem587e10ce70QQitemZ380072152688QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

Richmond does make a 5 speed with overdrive that is a direct replacement for a muncie. ( Best verify this. ) However the gear ratios probably aren't as close as their 5 speed non-overdrive unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-RICHMOND-5-SPEED-OVERDRIVE-GM-FORD-TRANSMISSIONS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem587e10ce70QQitemZ380072152688QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Yeah but that transmission is more than the entire Tremec kit! I think that part of his point of going with the Richmond was the cost savings of not having to buy a "kit" and only needed a transmission and a shifter.

 

A bit of a late reply, but keeping driveshaft RPMS down is an advantage - run some critical speed calculations and you'll see why. The Richmond /Nash is called a 4+1 because it's ratios are roughly the same as the M21 with the addition of a lower 1st gear. This trans is designed to be used with a 3.08, 2.73, or 2.56 rear end. Yes, it's not an overdrive - it's better.