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How are people running 235s or 245s up front?

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#23 ·
OP, Are you checking the clearance with full weight and at ride height? If you're checking with the wheels in full droop (car raised) chances are the tires will rub. I'm running 215/70 r15's with 4.25" BS and they damn near rub with the front end raised up allowing full droop. My disc conversion moves the wheels out .25.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
allanjs said:
OP, Are you checking the clearance with full weight and at ride height? If you're checking with the wheels in full droop (car raised) chances are the tires will rub. I'm running 215/70 r15's with 4.25" BS and they damn near rub with the front end raised up allowing full droop. My disc conversion moves the wheels out .25.
Click to expand...
Full weight, sans driver. Should be ride height as I've got nothing left to change as far as I know.
 
#25 ·
HvyMetal68 said:
Geez, I'd love to run that. Any chance you could snap a picture of how close to the frame your tires are at full lock? I just posted how mine looks a few minutes ago.
Click to expand...
I can but it'll be a few days, maybe sooner if I can
 
#27 ·
I think your situation is aggravated by your high ride height and low caster.

Don
 
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#28 ·
HvyMetal68 said:
The 4.125 number comes from the current Cragar listing for what appears to be the same wheel I have.

View attachment 297102

Here's my measure of the backspace.
Click to expand...
So 4.125 it is... By what has been provided including that thick spacer, you currently shouldn't have any inner rubbing. How are the body bushings? Something isn't right. What brake conversion are you using? Is the spacer so the wheels clear the brakes? It's reducing the backspacing which shouldn't be needed yet you still have inner rubbing... My 8" wide fronts wheels on top of a C5 brake conversion have 4.75" bs (+6) and 235/45/17's ever so slightly scuff on the inside at full lock.
 
#29 ·
I should correct my statement about no rubbing. I do get minor rubbing on the top center inner fender bolt when pulling into my driveway with the wheels turned very sharply. Never has rubbed when out driving normally, just my driveway for some reason.
 
#31 ·
Very strange. Mine barley touched the frame full lock with 17x8 with 5" backspacing (could only get 1/2" increments - figured I could space it out if necessary) and 245/45R17s. I have Baer disc brakes up front which add about .25" compared to drums. I also had mine set with -.5* camber, +4* caster (aftermarket a-arms).

Does it rub the same on both sides? Maybe your frame is shifted.
 
Discussion starter · #32 · (Edited)
dhutton said:
I think your situation is aggravated by your high ride height and low caster.

Don
Click to expand...
Interesting. Right now the frame is hitting the upper part of the tire. With a lower ride height, the frame would be a bit lower (right?) and I'd think I'd start hitting even earlier since now I'm hitting above the centerline of the tire.

On the caster, I'm working with David Pozzi's recommendations and for manual steering cars, only 1-2 degrees of caster is recommended. I'm not sure where I got the 1-2 degrees of recommended caster for manual steering. I've been doing a lot of reading around on specs.

I don't really know how challenging more caster on a manual steering car would be. I could see how that might help with the frame rubbing though. Caster isn't terribly hard to change, even if I don't end up driving it that way, so this weekend I'll see how much caster I can add and see if that helps.

I haven't driven it yet because 1) I only have 25-year-old tires and 2) I'm awaiting a second master cylinder to finish out the brakes. I've heard conflicting ideas if the ride height will come down with driving it a bit or not.

At a future point I wouldn't mind adding power steering but I was hoping to put that off until I dropped a new engine in. Maybe I'll have to reconsider if the increased caster makes that much difference.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
DjD said:
So 4.125 it is... By what has been provided including that thick spacer, you currently shouldn't have any inner rubbing. How are the body bushings? Something isn't right. What brake conversion are you using? Is the spacer so the wheels clear the brakes? It's reducing the backspacing which shouldn't be needed yet you still have inner rubbing... My 8" wide fronts wheels on top of a C5 brake conversion have 4.75" bs (+6) and 235/45/17's ever so slightly scuff on the inside at full lock.
Click to expand...
The body bushings definitely need replacement. They're on the list, but I was hoping to drive it a little bit before taking that on.

I'm using the Wilwood 140-10510-D kit as it offered the largest rotor that might fit a 15" wheel. And it does. I have 18" wheels but if I don't care for them I'm keeping the old Cragars if I want to change back. The spacer is because "Wheel spacer (Wilwood P/N 300-11961) MUST be used if any wheel contact surfaces overhand the outside diameter of the hub face."

By that rule, I need to use the spacer on both my 15" wheels and the 18" wheels.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
FbodyMike said:
Very strange. Mine barley touched the frame full lock with 17x8 with 5" backspacing (could only get 1/2" increments - figured I could space it out if necessary) and 245/45R17s. I have Baer disc brakes up front which add about .25" compared to drums. I also had mine set with -.5* camber, +4* caster (aftermarket a-arms).

Does it rub the same on both sides? Maybe your frame is shifted.
Click to expand...
On the other side, it's maybe 1/8" from rubbing, so slightly different.
 
#35 ·
I was going to ask if you had driven the car yet but you answered that with a previous post. The car will settle some after driving. The suspension needs a good shake down particularly after rebuild. This is typical anytime a car is raised off the ground. That alone will change the ride height a bit. I'm not sure Pozzi recommends 1-2* caster on manual steering. If you can get 3-4* you'll be much better off. Do the tires rub only on one side of the frame or both front and rear?
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
allanjs said:
I was going to ask if you had driven the car yet but you answered that with a previous post. The car will settle some after driving. The suspension needs a good shake down particularly after rebuild. This is typical anytime a car is raised off the ground. That alone will change the ride height a bit. I'm not sure Pozzi recommends 1-2* caster on manual steering. If you can get 3-4* you'll be much better off. Do the tires rub only on one side of the frame or both front and rear?
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There's a solid inch of clearance between the front of the tire and the frame at full lock.

And you're right, I can't find that reference from Pozzi regarding caster, only "WARNING, if you have manual steering, high positive caster will make the steering wheel harder to turn." I'm not sure where I got the 1.5 number from then.
 
#38 ·
Are you using stock lower control arms, stock steering arms and stock spindles? Are the stops in place on the control arms? I've seen a few instances where the stops were removed. I read the Wilwood instructions and they are a bit vague and confusing. They state the .19 dimension may end up + or -. I didn't study them for long. I think you need a good shake down run and alignment recheck including toe-in.
 
#39 ·
HvyMetal68 said:
Is it possible I just have an absurd amount of travel before hitting the stops/rubbing?
View attachment 297126
Click to expand...
From this pic, it looks like you have more turning angle that needed.
You could modify your bump stops by welding in some extra steel. My tubulars have a threaded bung and use a bolt and lock nut for bump stop adjustment.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
allanjs said:
Are you using stock lower control arms, stock steering arms and stock spindles? Are the stops in place on the control arms? I've seen a few instances where the stops were removed. I read the Wilwood instructions and they are a bit vague and confusing. They state the .19 dimension may end up + or -. I didn't study them for long. I think you need a good shake down run and alignment recheck including toe-in.
Click to expand...
The lower control arms are replacements that supposedly match OEM specs. I can't really measure and compare them in every dimension but I did place them on top of the old ones (the shock hole had been enlarged in the old ones and I wasn't comfortable re-using them) and they seemed to match. The stops are in place, the spindles are the stock drum spindles, and as far as I know, the rest of the steering components are original.
 
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HvyMetal68
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