George

WELCOME ABOARD!:hurray:

Looks like you will have a nice solid car to start with. Not bad at all! I noticed the tail panel and driver's 1/4 dents to be wrestled with, and some other little trouble spots, but nothing major at all. Of course, without blasting and removing the paint down to metal, you can never really tell 100% at first glance--especially through pics. But definitely a solid car to start with. Wish mine was that nice. :sad:

I would recommend exactly what you are doing. Join this incredible site, ask for help, throw out a few lines, and see who's in your area that is willing to tackle some replacement panels and patchwork. There's bound to be someone on here in your area or at least local that will recommend someone to you.

Looks like you will need: (just so you have another opinion before you search out bodyshops) I'm 10000% sure others will chime in too.

1. outer rocker or replace?
2. some window channel repairs here and there
3. tail panel repair or replace?
4. driver 1/4 repair or replace?
5. pass 1/4 upper well lip repair/patch panel
6. door repairs for the dents
7. firewall repair
8. inner cowl possible repair, but most likely replace?

* hope you don't mind, I just love making lists. This is just at first glance through internet pics, but I would be proud of that one. Clean car! Let us know if you need help along the way. I am neck-deep in my 69 coupe restoration as we speak. Check out my thread for 100's of pics and great reference info., measurements, etc... Enjoy!:beers:

 

A good thing to do is sign up for a free picture hosting site so you can post your pics directly into your thread. I use photobucket, but there are dozens of other good ones out there to use now.

 

Welcome......................look forward to seeing your progress. I can guarantee if you have questions you WILL find the answer on this site. Excellent bunch of members and it somewhat resembles an extended family on here. I am on the West Coast so can't help with bodyshop suggestions but I am sure others will chip in some suggestions.

 

Welcome. Thanks for your service and good luck with your project!

 

Todd,

I agree with you on all the work needed. I do want to replace the entire cowl panel rather than trying to repair. I think the upper dash can be repaired if I can somehow remove the cowl box without damaging the dash panel.

Thanks for the hosting suggestion. Looks like Picasa does it as well. Now that I know how to post a pic, this is my other vehicle. A '95 Honda Magna. Very fun.

George

 

I had no luck finding someone to do this work. The shops that were willing to look at it didn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Looks like I'm doing this myself.

I want to thank everyone who posts their work on this board. I've been reading and looking at the pictures extensively. Without this resource I would never attempt this. I'll try to be as good as others with my updates and help with the limited knowledge I have. If anyone spots an obvious mistake I'm making please point it out.

I'm starting with the boxed cowl section and dash top. I've started by removing the outer section of the cowl. I need to remove the outer shoulders to continue.

I did manage to separate the drivers side without removing the shoulders with the use of an angle drill attachment. The passenger side is too tight to do the same way.

Thanks for looking.

George

 

Looks like you got a nice start on the tear down there...

Just be sure to tack weld in some bracing between the A-pillars (windshield opening) and/or lower front door jambs and across each door opening before removing too much. You don't want the shell to twist and distort while taking parts off.

 

I was going to leave it alone in this section. The firewall is still in place (the rusted top portion was cut off) and the doors still on the car. I took measurements between the windshield trim attachment studs and fender mounting bolts. You think I need more than that?

 

Are you replacing the complete inner cowl section or just the upper portion that you removed? If you remove the rest of it, I would definitely add some bracing.

What about the firewall? Are you replacing it too?

 

I am replacing the entire boxed section of the cowl (inner and outer). The firewall is not being replaced. I'm leaving it with just that top rusted lip cut out. I've got the drivers side of the lower cowl separated and I have to say that it's not flexing at all.

This is what I started with:

In the better safe than sorry category, I should have braced it, but it does seem very solid with so much of the firewall in place. One thing missing in the pic above, I do have a 1X1 steel brace bolted between the frame mounts now, although I don't think that would help with flexing.

 

Has anyone seen anything like this. This is the passenger side cowl shoulder:

Looks like the assembler whipped out the big hammer.

 

Just checking in to see how the tear down is going. It's been a while since an update or pics.

 

Todd,

Thanks for checking in. I've been meaning to post an update. I finished removing the cowl and I started small by butt welding up the blower motor hole on the pass side. It took me way too long and It's pretty ugly. I don't have much practical experience with MIG welding (translation: none) and It was pretty depressing how much I had to grind just to get it passable. I'm sure I would get better with practice, but I'm tired of waiting and really was concerned about it being done right. I wish I had the patience and skill to do what so many of you guys do on here, but I'm going to farm out the panel replacement.

Long story, short: I contacted Tony from Muscle Car Metal and I'm waiting for a contract from him to do the panel replacement (should be here soon). Quarters, rear panel, Inner-outer wells, trunk floor, roof, cowl, smooth firewall, dash. He said he can fit the car in the beginning of December and I should have it back early next year. My wife was on board with the cost (she's going to have to drive our 2001 Sante Fe a little while longer).

I saw Tony's work from Steve's thread and called him. He was exactly like his reputation; very nice and a great guy to talk with. I will post pics of my attempt soon so you can laugh at my mess.l I know I gave up a bit soon, but I think I'll be much happier getting this portion done professionally. I've got some rust on the Santa Fe, maybe I'll butcher that for practice.

While the shell is out being worked on by MCM, I’ll get some good pics together of my frame and engine.

George

 

That's cool. Sometimes that's the best way to go. Hey--at least you can say you tried right? I bet you're more excited now than ever being that there's a bright light at the end of the tunnel. I am sure it will turn out sweet coming from Tony's shop. His work looks pretty nice from what I have seen on here. Hmmm... by January huh? I will try to beat you to it if I can. I want to get this metal work done so badly too. I was getting concerned and thought you may have sold it. Glad to see you'll stick it through. :thumbsup::beers:

 

Hey, I didn't hold on to a car for 20 years to sell it. My friends would never let me hear the end of it. My wife has never even gotten a ride in it, and we've been married 15 years.

I will finish it. Although, we're never really finished. Let me say:

I will register and drive it. That's better...

 

That's awesome. You'll enjoy it when it's done.

I was just looking through your Picasa account and noticed that it has original paint! No? Looks like it's only been painted once at the factory. Pretty cool... rare find too.

I would love to bug you for some measurements when you have a chance. Trunk opening, height from trunk floor to package tray, door opening heights, etc... I always like to double-check that mine is as accurate as possible. However, these cars do vary a little bit from car to car, so measurements are only a good guide honestly. Would you mind if I PM'd you some measurement questions? Looks like a nice stock-unmolested car to get good solid figures from. :yes:

 

The car is original body, original paint, original glass (other than the windshield). Other than some bad bondo work on the crunched doors It's all original. Send me whatever you want and I'll help out. That goes for anyone. I'd like to contribute where I can.

Bear in mind, right now, there is no upper cowl (but the FW is still in place) and the driver side quarter got crunched slightly.

 

George--- thanks so much!...:beers:

Here’s the dimensions I would love to verify: *(I provided the blank answer key below to enter the dimension into and then you can cut+paste them into your post) :thumbsup: I can't help it, I'm a teacher. I fell like I just wrote a custom test for you to take. haha...

A. TRUNK OPENING:
1. Left to right across the car –measuring in the middle of the opening

2. Front to rear of the opening—measuring in the middle of the opening

B. DOOR OPENINGS: (passenger or driver side)
1. Top to bottom measuring at a 90 degree angle to the outer rocker panel flat surface where the sill plate mounts to the front end of the roof rail drip channel (to check the rocker panel height and overall door openng)

2. Top to bottom measuring at a 90 degree angle to the outer rocker panel flat surface where the sill plate mounts to the drip rail directly vertical of the door jamb striker bolt surface. (to check the rocker panel height and overall door openng)

C. TRUNK FLOOR TO REAR PACKAGE TRAY:
1. Measuring from the flat surface of the trunk floor directly underneath the package tray lowest surface where the speakers mount to. (*I need this on both sides please. (to check the measurement of the rear seat back surface from floor to package tray.)

D. INNER ROCKER PANEL TO INNER ROCKER PANEL:
1. Measuring across the floor board from inner rocker to inner rocker inside-most surfaces right where they end by the back seat. (to check the factory width of the full floor board from side to side.)

E. FRONT FLOOR ON TOP OF TRANNY TUNNEL TO THE FRONT WINDSHIELD OPENING:
1. Measuring from the top surface of the tranny tunnel to the bottom edge of the front windshield opening (to check my firewall positioning and floor height at the front of the car.)

A:
1.

2.

B:
1.

2.

C:
1.

D:
1.

E:
1.

 

a. Trunk opening:
1. Left to right across the car –measuring in the middle of the opening

2. Front to rear of the opening—measuring in the middle of the opening

b. Door openings: (passenger or driver side)
1. Top to bottom measuring at a 90 degree angle to the outer rocker panel flat surface where the sill plate mounts to the front end of the roof rail drip channel (to check the rocker panel height and overall door openng)

2. Top to bottom measuring at a 90 degree angle to the outer rocker panel flat surface where the sill plate mounts to the drip rail directly vertical of the door jamb striker bolt surface. (to check the rocker panel height and overall door openng)

c. Trunk floor to rear package tray:
1. Measuring from the flat surface of the trunk floor directly underneath the package tray lowest surface where the speakers mount to. (*i need this on both sides please. (to check the measurement of the rear seat back surface from floor to package tray.)

d. Inner rocker panel to inner rocker panel:
1. Measuring across the floor board from inner rocker to inner rocker inside-most surfaces right where they end by the back seat. (to check the factory width of the full floor board from side to side.)

e. Front floor on top of tranny tunnel to the front windshield opening:
1. Measuring from the top surface of the tranny tunnel to the bottom edge of the front windshield opening (to check my firewall positioning and floor height at the front of the car.)

Todd,

Here goes nothing. I hope it helps:

a: I couldn't get a consistent measurement across at center because of this:

so I measured across at 9 inches down from the seam where the quarter meets the filler panel.
1.49 7/8

2.16 7/8 (I don't think that this measurement is too far off, even with the damage)

B:I couldn't figure out what you needed on the second measurement. This is how I measured for the first:

1.34 3/4 at the bottom of the drip rail

2.

C: I used the sheet rock square here as well:

1. Driver side=12 1/8 Pass Side=12

D: had a little trouble with this because of the trans hump. Used welding magnets on the seam to raise the plane so this measurement is suspect
1. 48 3/4

E: I don't have a cowl any longer , so I can't get you this measurement
1.

 

As promised, here are pics of my attempt at closing the blower motor hole.

I opened up the hole with the plasma to get to flat steel and mocked up the patch. So far so good.

Then my really bad welds. :sad:

And the finish work:

And that makes it look better than it is. There are pinholes and lots of uneven areas. I kept increasing the wire speed which helped the coverage, but was depositing too much metal. I ground off a ton of weld. I'm sure I would improve with practice, but I don't want to practice on this car. I'll have to find some 80's G-Body to mess with. :yes:

Thanks for listening, or reading.

George

 

As promised, here are pics of my attempt at closing the blower motor hole.

I opened up the hole with the plasma to get to flat steel and mocked up the patch. So far so good.



Then my really bad welds. :sad:



And the finish work:


And that makes it look better than it is. There are pinholes and lots of uneven areas. I kept increasing the wire speed which helped the coverage, but was depositing too much metal. I ground off a ton of weld. I'm sure I would improve with practice, but I don't want to practice on this car. I'll have to find some 80's G-Body to mess with. :yes:

Thanks for listening, or reading.

George

That's not horrible, and would just take a little tweaking to get to look right and be water tight. Do you have an angle grinder that you can attach a roloc attachment to? Also, are you using argon/co2 gas with your welder? After smoothing it out with 60 grit without taking off any cowl box metal, then checking for pinholes and weld-filling those with quick tacks, then taking the roloc 60 grit there one more time, and then again with a 180 grit roloc, I bet it would look good. Those types of repairs are most times done in several steps I have found. Sometimes you are playing the back and forth game just to make it look right. Maybe try it before shipping it off to moneyland? It's worth a shot...

 

George-- thanks so much for measuring. I just went outside and compared them all (except for the trunk opening since mine is not clamped together right now).

For the door opening --exactly how you measured it is exactly what I meant--nice.... BUT-- I am getting 35 3/4" exactly for each side. Are you sure about the 34 3/4" for that? It would be horrible to be a full inch off there. My doors fit nicely, but I haven't rolled up my glass yet. Would you mind re-checking just that one please?

Also, my package tray, measuring down through each speaker hole as you did, were 13 1/4" and 13 1/8" (L+R) I measured straight down perpendicularly to the trunk floor at the center of each speaker hole for those. Well, I guess that's why they make drop springs right? he he... If my floor is too low, it will raise the rear end of the car by that much since the spring pockets are lowered too. Hmmmm... The good news is since I am tall, I will have more headroom right? That will work out well since I will have power seat tracks that usually sit slightly taller than manuals.

Then, finally... I got 47" across the floor-- measuring right on the seam where the trunk floor meets the main floor. (no tranny hump in the way there)

Thanks again for the help. Will wait for your re-check on the ones mentioned. I won't be able to sleep without knowing...

 

I sure hope you didn't wait for my response. I went right to bed after Game 1 ended.

I ran into the garage before leaving for work and dbl-checked myself. Note to self, when using a sheet rock square to measure-add 1 1/2" for that header. Oops:clonk:. I can see why these things take me so long to do.

That makes the door measurement 36 1/4" and the package tray 13 5/8" and 13 1/2". That is still a 1/2" off from what you have. I will measure the passenger side door when I get home as a second reference and I'll get you that last measurement as well. That would basically be inner wheel well to inner wheel well at the trunk seam.

Thanks for taking it easy on me on the welding critique. I used argon/co2 with .023 E70S-6 wire. I finished with a 4" flap disc and 36 grit rolocs, never got to a higher grit. I gave up at that point when I saw all the pinholes coming through. The pics make it look much better than it is, and it ONLY took me 5 hours! I don't have that much patience. I will try to learn the art of welding, I just don't want to do it on this car.

 

Todd,

The passenger door also measures 36 1/4". The width at the end of the floor is 46 3/4". Let me know if you want anything else.

I wasn't sure if anyone likes original tags and stickers:

I feel a bit bad that they're going to disappear.

 

George

Thanks again. That's perfect. I get 47" at the rear trunk seam, but it may be that since I was having a hard time leaning through the door opening with the door closed and holding the tape still, so it's probably the same. As for the door openings, to the bottom of the drip rail ( which I just removed---DOH!) so I had to clamp them back on, I got 35 3/4" measuring from the large flat area on the outer rocker panel where the sill plate would sit. That means our cars door opening heights are 1/2" off. Hmmmmm.... It may be a difference in how we are measuring? I hope! I also have those nice NORWOOD plant door stickers. I carefully heated them up with a heat gun and peeled them off to save them.

 

Does anyone have a body shop they can recommend for blocking and painting once I get my car back from Tony? I am willing to travel to get a good job done (I'm in Queens, NY). I've started to make some phone calls, but wanted to check with you guys. This would be the first car I've ever had painted. Thanks.

George