CCP - chinese crap parts
Made in usa means assembled in usa
Manufactured in china

 

Odd, Team Camaro has their Ad's from ClassicProform.com, CPP not CCP flying on the side bars.

 

You could put Delrin bushings in your stock control arms...

https://www.summitracing.com/search...trol-arm-bushings/bushing-material/delrin/year/1969/make/chevrolet/model/camaro

Don

 

I'm hoping to increase positive caster. From what I've read stock arms are very limited in this area.
The Delrin bushings are nice. MWD has them with steel shells.
Delrin is strong I have a few gears on my lathe made of Delrin to cut noise and they have been in operation for 8 years now.

 

If it is a real Z replace with stock style parts, otherwise people will wonder??

 

You mean to say people would doubt the Cowl Tag - X77 because I wanted better handling at my old age.
I’m 22 in the first photos of my Z and now I'm 62.

I bought the car in the days when people wanted Muscle Cars and never saw or heard of tribute cars.
First time ever drove it was a friend’s Lime Green Plymouth Duster 340, 4spd. He installed an aftermarket hot cam a sixpack manifold, 10:1 pistons, Dough Thorley headers, 2” Exh and Thrush mufflers. >
I was hooked on power; the DMV instructor was perspiring profusely when I turned the key. He only said first time, right! I was 17 in the US Navy; my hands were wetting the stick and wheel.
When I hit Interstate 10 and opened the throttle he turned pale. Upon returning he ran into the Bldg saying “you passed” and disappeared? I don’t think he enjoyed the power of being pinned to a seat, Oh well. :smile2:

Anyways I have years of photos of me and my Z/28 and the Cowl Tag still says X77. :grin2:

 

I just installed Helix upper and lower control arms, ProForged ball joints, tie rods, and ends. I used the tall spec upper ball joints. I already had Hotchkis 2" lowering springs, so the car sat too low. Added Global West coil 3/4" spring pocket spacers and its sitting nice again. Just had it aligned using specs geared towards better handling. It's really much improved, and I did upgrade to a quicker steering box out of a 96 JGC. Not quite '84 IROC but close enough. Helwig sway bars are next.

The Helix arms are CAD designed in the USA and yes... manufactured in China. Have to say they look excellent, and I actually have talked with their sales/tech people. So they're a step above eBay no-name stuff, and yeah they cost a little more. I wanted the tall BJs, so I pulled all their included BJs and used ProForged, a company I know is top notch.

My car is a restomod, I'm not concerned about authenticity, I'm way older than you John... and like you I just want to enjoy it (and i am).😎

 

My understanding is that ALL CPP parts are manufactured in China, and with very little to NO engineering involved. Currently there are MANY cases of their steering arm balls coming off/out of the arms.... New Zealand aftermarket parts organization prohibits the chinese tilt columns from being sold/used in that country. Unfortunately, the US seems to have no such organization which polices aftermarket suppliers, even for safety related items!

bottom line when buying offshore parts: BEWARE..

PS. re the comment about 'X77' on the cowl tag and aftermarket parts.. I have a question: "WHY would anyone care if X77/X33/etc was on the cowl tag IF the original parts were not in place???"

 

You can use delrin body mounts that are solid but not as harsh as solid.

There have been scores of discussions about the Ebay/CPP tubulars. Although many warn of poor quality metal and welds there have been no documented structural failures posted by anyone.

I just did an LS swap for a member that has the CPP arms in his 68 and has not had any issues. think they were installed a couple years ago.

It appears that most bad reviews are from guys that never used them and the people that have them are OK.

This is just my personal observation. I'm not endorsing them as I personally have not used them.

The main issue seems to be the quality of the Ball Joints. Many people use them and change the ball joints.

Do some further searches and see what you find.

 

The main issue seems to be the quality of the Ball Joints. Many people use them and change the ball joints.

Do some further searches and see what you find.

It does seem like there are enough examples of bad ball joints and bushings to raise concern about the entire assembly & cut corners. Seems hard to overlook, at least to me. But i digress.

 

I was in the same situation a few years ago.... what brand of tubular control arms to get. I read all of the posts, and researched several different companies. I wanted to get the most bang for my buck, and not worry about the parts I selected.

In the end, I went with the Global West Tubular upper control arms with delrin bushings (added caster gains), and changed the provided upper ball joints to the Proforged tall ball joints (neg camber gains). To help save money, I used my stock lower control arms, but installed Global West Del-a-lum bushings in them... along with new lower Proforged ball joints.

Personally, I did not like the design of the upper control arms with the inserts installed in the cross shafts. I am sure the control arms with inserts are fine... I just wanted tubular upper control arms with solid cross shafts.

I also installed new "taller" tie rod ends to help with bump steer. Basically, I just followed the test results that David Pozzi provided. I used modern front end alignment specs, and my car handles great!

I can also say that Global West is a GREAT company to work with if you have any questions or issues (I do not work for Global West).

 

In this day and age there are many ways to go to improve the handling. In my opinion, if you are just looking for tighter handling with less body lean on the street, find some NOS upper and lower control arms (if you are not sure of the condition of your originals), put taller upper ball joints on them, aluminum subframe spacers, subframe connectors, and good shocks like Konis. This is coming from a guy who spent the dough on the SPC upper and lower tubulars and all the rest. Total overkill for what I do with the car. If you're going to buy tubular arms, SPC, Global West, DSE, and Hotchkiss are the ones to buy. They do there own research, they make their own arms out of AMERICAN steel tubing, and they offer different stages kits. Be honest with what you intend to to with the car. The biggest improvements will be the things you can do to simulate a full frame car (subframe connectors) and minimize deflection (solid bushings). The rest is really for the track. Do either the taller ball joints or the Guldstand mod (not both).

P.S. Nobody cares about your cowl tag

 

If you are looking for a couple extra degrees of + caster, use an offset upper control arm shaft and bushings of your choice, all in the original upper control arm. It will keep it looking original.

If you want aftermarket control arms, buy high quality, not cheap. I cannot vouch which ones will get you the caster gain you are looking for.

A big front sway bar will make an immediate, very noticeable difference when going around a corner.

A tall upper ball joint is a nice improvement. But in a valuable car like yours with original, good ball joints, that would necessitate removing the original rivets.

 

Wow, who makes these offset upper control arm shaft and bushings?
I never heard of this option before. That would keep my Upper control arms.
I'd still desire to replace the lower control arms even though the balljoints are good.
The previous owner (1976) had either struck rocks or drug the arms in a road rut or shoulder drop off.

Your Option would save me a bundle and I'd get the results hopefully.

 

I put the hotchkis tubular control arms on my 68 along with all the other parts of their suspension kit, except subframe connectors. It feels awesome.

 

Camaro 1967-1969 Replacement Components Global West

 

This is a Classic Question! When & if to change to a Tubular

Original Chevy Arms were never designed for the Tires that we drive on today. They are Stamped Steel Arms. Steel Arms that have 40 Years on them, were driven hard and put away wet are not the solution to today's driving - unless you are doing an Original Restoration.

Properly Made Tubular Arms will be lighter & stronger than OEM. They will have Geometry corrections (mostly in Caster), Upper Cross shafts will be Billet & Offset. They will be PowderCoated & have good quality Ball Joints. Are these Cheap - not if they are Made in the USA. But they are Worth IT! This is because we employ Engineers that are Car Guys that design & test their stuff. We have US sourced Steel DOM & Chromemoly & employ Welders with Names like Jessie, Tommy & Nick. We pay Taxes, Insurance and own our Building

Bad A-Arms (Chinese) will be made of Mystery Metal, welded by Children, Coated in Toxic materials that can't be purchased in the USA, have Cast iron Cross shafts and Ball Joints that belong on Fred Flintstone's Buggy. They don't do any R&D, heck they don't know what a Camaro is! They have No Warranty because who are you going to call?

Who wants Chinese Parts on Classic American Muscle?

 

Bad A-Arms (Chinese) will be made of Mystery Metal, welded by Children, Coated in Toxic materials that can't be purchased in the USA, have Cast iron Cross shafts and Ball Joints that belong on Fred Flintstone's Buggy. They don't do any R&D, heck they don't know what a Camaro is! They have No Warranty because who are you going to call?

Do you have any data to support those claims? If not you are doing BMR a huge disservice making claims like these. No reason to believe any of the claims you make about your products....

I'm all for buying USA products but this sort of thing does not add value without real data to support the claims you are making here...

Don

 

Those of us that know machining,know steel, and more importantly know Chinese industry won't by Chineseum tubular control arms. Why is it that BMR, DSE, GLOBAL WEST, SPC, and Hotchkis continue to manufacture in the U.S. effectively pricing themselves out of 80% of the market because the typical boob car guy prefers to save money over buying a quality part made of quality materials. Ever been to China? Ever been in a Chinese factory where your welder might have been herding goats two days ago? You come off as a learned man, why don't you read up on the Chinese steel companies and how they buy their quality certs instead of earning them. Educate yourself. I'm glad BMR posted the truth and stood up for themselves

 

If you are referring to me I have travelled to Chinese factories countless times and have met many talented Chinese engineers and manufacturers. Ive also been in factories in Taiwan, Japan and South Korea along with many US and European factories. I've seen good and bad in all locations, including the USA.

My point is that unsubstantiated claims of that sort add zero value and actually hurt the arguments folks are trying to make....

I recently installed a USA made rear suspension where the paint on the trailing arms literally fell off revealing heavy surface rust. Is this the sort of quality we should accept just because it was made in the USA? The same suspension also did not fit and after a little prodding the manufacturer fessed up that they had never even mocked up that version before offering it for sale and shipping it. Made in USA is not a guarantee of quality engineering and manufacturing...

Don

 

"My point is that unsubstantiated claims of that sort add zero value and actually hurt the arguments folks are trying to make...."

Agreed. Again I'm not endorsing these parts or any other offshore parts.

However whenever this topic pops up there are many quick to bash without facts to back up their claims.

They may very well be crap or maybe decent. I don't know as I have not used them.

I have friends that have them and are happy with them and others who wouldn't touch them.

I guess the best as with any other product or service is to talk to people who have used the products and services.

It would be great if one off the aforementioned US producers would acually do some testing and document the results. Then we'd all have something to hang our hats on.

So far as buy America. I'm 100% in. That Trumps everything. :beers:

 

I've seen some of the a arms questioned and they appear to be robotic welds.

I also understand the claim they do no R&D. Even here is the USA lots of manufacturing plants do not do any R&D on the products they manufacture. Lots of USA companies contract their designed products to be constructed offshore.

Take a look at your brand new Chevrolet and see where the parts come from.

And big time YES people do care about price. When a guy sees a part that looks the same but cost $300 instead of $1400 makes them think may be worth trying.

I like BMR, GW, DSE, Ridetech and use their parts on my cars. Great products.

I also know guys that use the less expensive CPP and EBay parts because they fit their needs and budgets. May not be the best but they have not reported any problems or failures.

my suggestion to the all America guys. Talk about how great your stuff is instead of blanket bashing the others. That's what sells me every time

 

my suggestion to the all America guys. Talk about how great your stuff is instead of blanket bashing the others. That's what sells me every time

This.....

Don

 

BMR, you have said it all and said it eloquently. The argument that our new cars have parts made in China as if that's the same thing could be more different. Those parts are made by companies owned by the Big Three who answers to the DOT and other US watchdogs. Very different.
Budgets were brought up. I would say it is foolish to not budget for quality made in the USA control arms. Buying Chinese arms is like buying Chinese fasteners to bolt your car together. Funny how I've read many a post about how nobody should do that but it's alright to buy control arms of questionable metallurgical content and manufacturing. Whatever. You can't fix stupid as Ron White always says.

 

To the OP, have you looked into Ridetech Street Grip? It's priced a little bit more reasonable and should work great on a street car. I've not used the Street Grip, but I've used Ridetech and I like their quality and customer service. And they definitely test out their products on the track.

 

X2. This is my plan for the next car I build.

My last 2 were full aftermarket front subs and rear. Quadralink and a Torque Arm

 

I would still like to see where there are actual failures reported. So if anyone has the URL or other, please point me in that direction.

 

T.C. I agree with you. However not all USA made parts are good and not all Offshore parts are bad.

 

Interesting to see the list of Hutton's builds and not see any chinesium control arms. Just sayin'.

 

I've built a few more cars than those. Generally turning out roughly two frame off restomods per year since I retired. Some complete builds and some painted rollers with suspension installed...

Don

 

Chet, TC. I admire your tenacious claims however I agree with Don and a couple others that without facts you got nothin other then unsubstantiated claims of inferior metal and welding technology.

If the structural integrity is so bad why is it so difficult to come up with documented failures.

R&D and geometry are obviously another concern but take a back seat to safety issues.

From what I read these offshore products are knockoffs of outdated US designs that I imagine were at one time considered the latest and greatest?

 

Let's keep to the subject and discuss the topic and my make personal attacks.

Now I don't think whether you've been to china or not means anything unless you've been to the factory making the control arms.

 

Here's a nice American made trailing arm for all you guys who think that all American products are excellent quality. Paint fell right off revealing this awesome American steel....

This is from one of the big names in suspension products....

This sort of complacency and lack of quality is what happens when folks blindly follow "buy American" marketeers...

I sent this photo to the head of the company. Never heard back from him. I wonder if he followed through to figure out why this happened....

Don

 

To close the loop on this I heard from them this morning. They are sending replacement arms and want these ones back for analysis. Apparently they have never seen this before.

Don

 

I agree with Dhutton here. Here is the thing. I think there is a different standard when you are posting from a business account vs some random Joe Blow with an opinion. If random Joe Blow posts something I am going to take everything I read with a grain of salt whereas someone posting from a business account, specifically one that seems related to the field more seriously. Unsubstantiated claims are never a good thing. Heck, show us some pictures of some Chinese control arms that have failed.

 

You contradict your whole post when you discount what a man who is in the suspension business has said about these arms and basically said they didn't award supplier contracts to Chinese companies after seeing the quality of samples said companies submitted to them. I applaud BMR and the other American companies who haven't gone the cheap route and maximized profit over quality. I'll listen to an owner of a suspension company over some Galihad defending Chinesium arms when he won't let the stuff near his "numerous builds". Like I said, the wise man budgets his money to buy quality suspension parts.

 

Why is it that during the numerous times this subject has been discussed no one has ever posted a single picture of a structural failure?

Whenever challenged to do so the detractors ignore them or divert the subject instead of responding directly.

Personally I've searched for hours on the internet trying to find documented failures without success. I'd love to find a bunch to prove it but no luck.

I suspect others have as well but won't admit it because they have also come up empty?

 

Exactly this ^.

I am all for buying American and I know Chinese companies reverse engineer stuff American companies put tons of $$$ of R&D into. As a consumer who isn't rich I am not opposed to buying things regardless of where they are made though to save money. Like Vegas said, if there were pictures all over the internet I would jump on the "Don't buy this Chinese junk" bandwagon but there simply isn't.